Hi folks. I am not really a US train fan, but I recently decided to purchase an F7. I remembered the fun of owing it. It was my first train set that my parents gave me when I was 7 years old. This was an F7 in warbonnet paint scheme, a tank car and a caboose - it was an absolute pleasure. So which one in this scale is better in terms of prototypical accuracy? Do I get it right that AZL option is better (more prototypicall proportions) and as a matter of fact is possible right now as MTL units are not in stock? Also seeing those prices, it makes me feel sad that you can purchase Kato AB units in N scale for the same amount of money as AZL A unit.
Definitely go for the AZL brand of locos, better running, reliable, and better detailed. MTL versions are solid runners, but noisy and less detailed. Getting harder to find as well.
Should I tell you what I paid for two HO Athearn blue box F-7As, an F-7B dummy, two Raintree FTA bodies and a Bowser FTB body thirty years ago? I had plenty left over for chicken wire...
AZL, for sure. Much smoother running, much less power requirement, DCC compatible. Manufactured ~2020. MTL Manufactured ~1990 (chunky blob horns, lesser detail ), remastered 2011 (horns now horns, more detail) The possible deciding element: switching or just running trains. MTL’s patented coupler will allow you to decouple MTL’s freight cars. AZL cannot be used for switching. You can push them together (Autolatch) but you must pick up one end to uncouple. For MTL’s locos with old style Permanent Magnet motor takes lots more power than the AZL’s cordless motors. MTL locos need the older power packs whereas AZL can uses less bulky power packs.
I wrote the above 7 years ago, and MTL F7's have been plying Z rails since 1986. The MTL F7 isn't DCC. Funny, brand new Z scale switcher locomotives made in 2022 aren't DCC either right out of the box! But the MTL F7 can do a real switcher puzzle layout right out of the box. Crickets from newer design Z "switcher" locomotives. I like the MTL F7 due to the metal truck towers with metal frames and metal gears. MTL continued to use this exact full metal jacket drivetrain into their GP9/GP35, into which they also added a Swiss-made Maxon can motor and in doing so (along with DCC board swap capability) made the perfect Z locomotive. Subsequent Z locomotives from MTL (SD 40-2) had a chintzy all plastic gearing and frame truck assembly that is to say the least, pathetic (my opinion only.) But the open frame carbon-dust-spitting 3-pole motor of the MTL is just so Lionel, which is why run with MTL Can-motored, all metal frames/gears/trucks, easily switchable couplers, GP9/35's.
Yeah, I have to agree the MTL GP35 mechanism is the best running loco in Z. The AZL is good, but just not AS good as that original GP35 with Maxon motor and dual flywheels. Everything is just high quality in it, and it just runs and runs... smooth and quiet.
Robert, I'm glad you've had such experience with the MTL locos, but I must post my generally opposite experience. I have over a dozen of the old, overwide, MTL GP loco releases, and they NEVER get run at shows, because they are so unpredictable/unreliable. Sometimes they'll run great for an hour or so, then start grinding/binding like I've thrown sand in the gears. Set them aside and try later, same exact thing. I'm guessing it's a heat and tolerance issue, but never have time to really deal with it at a show. I run MTL F7's more than I do any other power from them, though those are mostly modified/enhanced with wheel wipers. And if running any AZL hood locos on the same layout, the MTL hood width sticks out pretty significantly. Just my alternate take. Again, glad you've had such good results!
For Prototypical accuracy AZL is by far the best choice. They are good dependable runners with better details than MTL or Marklin. + their is a drop in decoder available for them. The MTL F units are not as prototypical, they are noisy, The chassis must be modified to make room for a decoder and some tend to wobble down the track, + they suffer from poor power pickup. but they are good pullers and those that have been tuned up with Glens wheel wipers tend to run very good. Marklin's F units run ok but they are not prototypical. As for price Well you get what you pay for. If you want a high quality well detailed prototypical Z scale loco then pay the price and go with AZL. If you want a noisy, loco that looks like a f unit. save some money and buy a used MTL. And if you want less prototypical unit buy a used Marklin F unit. If your going to compare N to Z why not compare HO to Z as well. Back in the 70's i could buy a brand new TYCO F unit for $11.99 and if the build tolerances were 1mm out of speck it still ran great. With Z scale if its out 0.01mm its going to give you trouble if it will even run at all. Example (as it was explained to me) All things being equal lets say it cost $15,000 to make a mold for wheel sets in HO, N, & Z and that mold wears down the same of no matter what the scale is at about .0.01 per 100,000 wheels. Well with Z 0.01 is max tolerance = 100,000 wheel sets for $15,000 N scale is a little more forgiving and can go to 0.02 = Gets them 200,000 wheel sets for that same $15,000 mold twice as many for the same cost H0 can go to .05 which gets them 500,000 wheel sets for the same $15,000 mold 5 times the number of wheels out of that same $15,000 Mold The smaller the Manufacturing Tolerances are the more expensive the cost is going to be. So Yes Z scale is a little bit more expensive than the larger scales are.
The only MTL F7's I own were both worked on by Glen Chenier. They run like tops even after sitting for long periods. He also added LED headlights as well. I have one NYC and one PRR. We've come a long way since the Marklin F7. For sentimental reasons the MTL F7's are my favorites. I do not own an AZL F7. However, if one comes out in NH, I will. Jim.
Hey all, just a heads up. If anyone is looking for wheel wipers, I just came across 24 sets. I put them up on Ztrack Resale.
I have to agree with you. Since I started with an MTL set back in the late 80s I've had a fondness for the MTL F7. I have several AZL F units and they are light years ahead of MTL. Better shell, smoother chassis, etc. But I have a pretty strong nostalgia streak in me, and the MTL F7 is at the top of that list. I was very happy to see production resume, and I've already purchased several. One of my early F7s graced the cover of a very old issue of ZTrack magazine Steve W
Nothing wrong with reviving an old F7 discussion. There’s plenty of newbies entering the Z-scale world, and good for these questions to pop up once in a while. As for wheel wipers, Don Fedjur in California is selling an enhanced upgraded type. His email address: donfedjur@aol.com Give him a shout. He is a great guy and will happily sell you as many wheel wiper kits as you need. He also services F sevens and sells other parts to.
I was going to suggest we see if we can get one of the small etchers to make new ones, but awesome to find out someone is still making/selling them. I too have a nostalgia issue with these, and have 7 of them that could use a wiper upgrade.