I see the real value of modern RTR equipment & supplies as allowing us to do more modeling to a higher standard (within a given amount of time) than was previously possible. For N scale that means we have a hope of making progress on a large pike that we can run good looking long trains on without spending (literally) a lifetime doing so. We still need to bring carpentry, wiring, and scenery-making skills to the table as we always have (and now we have much better supplies to bring too). Many of us still like to upgrade RTR equipment with details, new paint jobs, and/or weathering, and some of us even still scratchbuild from the ground up, but that is increasingly rare. Overall, I would still say times have never been better, especially for N scale! I have never belonged to the NMRA, and I agree that it is relatively irrelevent for modelers. However, I think it still serves an invaluable role as a standards orginization, so maybe it's better to think of it as a manufacturers group. The key question then is who pays for this service? Cheers, Gary P.S. I just noticed that I didn't answer the question.
Don't know which I am and I don't much care. When I get my layout started it will be purely for my enjoyment, maybe some friends to check out and maybe I'll share some pictures with the various forums on the webs. It certainly won't be prototypical but I will enjoy it and that's what really counts no matter what your level of skill in creating a model railroad. Now if there was ever a prototypical railroad that had to deal with 100 foot high Siamese cats I might be on to something. Mainetrains:cat2:
I was going to point out that it's modeller with two 'l's in the Queen's English.:tb-biggrin: I'm old school and call myself a railwayman but it's getting so we can't use that term either with all the women coming into the job. 'Model Railwayman' doesn't have the ring to it 'Model Railroader' does. I'm going to play with my trains.:tb-biggrin:
You must have that odd U.S. English spell check activated, mine spells it right. I often wonder what you yanks do with all the letters you take out of words.:tb-biggrin:
I find this thread one of the more interesting ones in a long while. You are asking us for a definition of how we view ourselves, and to define the definition. I really don't think there is a clear definition for either or both. But for me, since I have been around this hobby for so long, I use what impressions I get when I hear the words. To me, model railroader is a more generic term used to define all of us involved in scale model trains, which could mean the collector, or the intrinsic builder with attention to utmost detail or prototype credibility, or to the guy who just likes to run trains on his layout. Railroad modeler is basically that - a modeler who is involved with trains. A modeler to me, is a guy who takes great pains to model his work, put his identity, handle or trademark on it, and that his models are modeled. As for me, I consider myself unfortunately a hybrid mix of both. There is no greater fun for me to power up my layout and watch them run for hours without touching a tool. But also, I love to model cars, trucks, structures and trains in my work room, and even when I want to build something for kicks to relieve pressure of impending projects, I can't do it. For example, I got a bunch of N Bachmann Plus Coaling Stations and just wanted to build it right out of the box when Hurricane Fay was pounding rain outdoors. Couldn't be done----the railroad modeler devil in me took over and now the station and all of its parts have been modified, weathered, painted, decalled, detailed and put on a larger base to place on my layout. Looking back, I think the difference between the two terms are best defined as the difference between Frank Ellison who relied on operations, instead of realism and detail, and George Selios, who is a master of detail in every model on his layout. I know I offer no answers, just my $.02 worth. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
In the now rather distant past those who enjoyed miniature trains as a hobby could be divided into several distinct groups. There were "armchair" hobbyists and collectors, those who talked about but never actually built layouts; the toy train community made up largely of kids with their Lionel/Flyer/Marx trainboards; the Hi-railers who were mainly adults also employing O and S-gauge toy trains but run on modestly detailed layouts; then there were the "scale model railroaders", men typically with considerably more skills and talent who modeled everything to scale and at a detail level which rendered their layouts realistic and believable, especially considering the primitive materials they had to work with. These were broadly accepted categories and the reason that Model Railroader and RMC originally took steps to separate themselves from the toy train and Hi-rail folks. Over the last decade or two the lines between these different groups have become increasingly blurred, until today they are generally considered all to be a single group. In the area of scale model railroading, many if not most of the items formerly scratchbuilt, or requiring skills to create, are now available over the counter RTR and we have begun to see full layout kits and even pre-formed layout sections appearing in the marketplace. "Model railroaders" now seem increasingly comprised of a somewhat limited group of accomplished old school modelers and a much larger, broader and ill-defined group that might be considered to be the outgrowth of what the former toy train enthusiasts became as adults and something slimilar to Hi-railers using HO and N equipment. Without question, the talents and skills exhibited by the well known hobbyists of the past are disappearing, as is much of the real individuality of layouts, mostly through an unwillingness of newer hobbyists to take the time and effort to learn the skills of the craftsman. The idea some have brought up in this thread re the NMRA somehow being the keeper and perpetuator of the modeling skills is I think a bit overdone, as true scratchbuilding now rates only very small points value in their contests. Therein, shuffling paper and documents ranks higher than true modeling skills and as a result the conventional contests are dying (read Scale Rails and the regional newsletters to see how "non-contest" are being introduced to save this area of the meets). Personally, I think RMC does far more to support classic model railroading today than the NMRA...while MR, the former champion of scratchbuilding projects, does very little and what they do publish is too often quite basic, superficial and incomplete. Finally, since operating a model railroad in a prototypical fashion has always been very much a niche interest in the hobby, I don't really consider it a factor as to whether one is a model railroader, or a railroad modeler. To me, the two terms mean the exact same thing. As for me...I do it all, old school. NYW&B
I wonder where the DCC standards set by the NMRA committe came from? Grant it there was a lot of manufacturers on that committe but,it was NMRA that set the DCC standards.
Well I been mulling over this topic for the last 2 days and decided for me it doesn't matter what you call me as long as you don't call me late for chow. Personally I call myself a train nut.
Ah....I think you need to look into the "DCC standards" origins and those that "set" them...and their associations with the manufacturers...to understand just how they came about. Setting standards is one thing and adopting someone elses is quite another. NYW&B
