IM/Centralia Passenger Car Lighting Issue

jrwirt May 5, 2009

  1. jrwirt

    jrwirt TrainBoard Member

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    Yesterday I received the new Intermountain/Centralia 6-6-4 Pullman sleepers. They are beautiful cars with nice paint and details. Factory installed diaphragms, MTL couplers, and lighting all make for a very nice package.

    But it is that lighting that I am writing about. The light system is battery powered with a magnetic sensor switch. A magnetic wand is included with each car that is used to turn the lighting on and off by waving it over one end of the car. To initially enable the lighting, it is necessary to remove a small plastic insulator that is inserted between the two button batteries. Out of the package, the lighting did not work for five out of my eight cars. I found that the battery holder is not making solid contact with the two batteries. If this is just due to vibration during shipping or sloppy assembly, I can't say.

    The fix is easy. The lighting control board is mounted just under the car roof. The roof lifts off easily and the light and battery assembly can be lifted out part way after removing a single screw. There are a pair of wires running to a second LED at the opposite end of the car which is held in place with the self-adhesive metal reflector. There is no need to remove the reflector to access the batteries. The batteries are stacked in a holder on the underside of the control board. I found that the metal tab on the top of the battery holder had to be bent down slightly to make solid contact. The batteries just push out of the holder laterally and can then be slid back in the same way after the tab is corrected.

    I have a question about the light control switch also. This is not the standard magnetic latching reed switch that many of us have used in similar applications. There are a couple ICs on the control board, the smaller of which is the magnetic activator. I wonder if it operates like a reed switch or if it is a magnetic sensor? If it is a sensor, that would imply that the circuit is energized even when the lights are off. This would mean the batteries are being drained with the lights off, though current draw might be low. I have sent IM a question via email to determine how the circuit operates so we know what to expect.
     
  2. jrwirt

    jrwirt TrainBoard Member

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    I got a very prompt and informative reply from Intermountain on this issue:

    So, it is possible if you pull the plastic insulating tab very carefully, you might not run into the problem. The tab seems to be wedged in there pretty tightly though, and with the friction between the plastic and metal battery case, it seems likely that the batteries will be pulled out of alignment. Maybe tugging the tab from side to side as it is extracted could help?

    It seems likely that the batteries are being comsumed while the LEDs are off. I will do some research on the devices being used in the circuit to see what the current consumption might be.
     
  3. Westfalen

    Westfalen TrainBoard Member

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    This is the first I've heard of lighted IM passenger cars, never saw any mention on IM's website or any retailers. (P.S. apologies, I see Wig Wag mentions it) Are the lighting kits available separately? Sounds like the upcoming lighting kit by Rapido Trains, wonder if it is the same or a cheap copy made my IM's Chinese factory like their pseudo Atlas diesel mechs? The way I read it the Rapido units will be a circuit board running the length of the car with a number of LEDs spread along the length.

    Quoting IM's letter, "The lighting circuit was completely designed by our factory in China and as such I don't know the exact answer to your question." No wonder they have QC problems. You got a prompt reply, and good on them for that, but it basically says "You know as much about it as we do, we just get the stuff from China and sell it".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2009
  4. wig-wag-trains.com

    wig-wag-trains.com Advertiser

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    The batteries need to be aligned with the contacts.

    The lit version was announced on our and I'm fairly certain pretty much every dealer's website since these were re-announced last summer. The next group includes the 4-4-2 sleeper and then the 18 roomette.
     
  5. Pete Steinmetz

    Pete Steinmetz TrainBoard Member

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    Companies give the Asian designers and manufacturers a "performance spec", in other words, how they want the finished product to perform. The Asian designers then design the product using whatever methods or components are available. As long as the product works for the life of the warranty, everything is good.

    This is how many cell phones and notebook computers are designed and manufactured. I'm not surprised model railroad companies are adopting this design and manufacturing approach.

    Asian designers are cheaper than US designers.
     
  6. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'm not very pleased with the design, due to the batteries. The better solution would have been to create a 'flicker-free' circuitry which includes a capacitor and picks-up current from the track. This is not a very economical approach to lighting cars and actually isn't what I would have expected from IMRC.
     
  7. Pete Steinmetz

    Pete Steinmetz TrainBoard Member

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    I will see Jim's cars tomorrow night. Knowing my Chinese colleagues, batteries are cheaper than designing a circuit to use track power. If it was me, I would use a small cheap Li coin cell or some type of cheap 1.5V primary button cell. Jim said there were 2 batteries, so it would have to be 1.5V cells. Pennies to the Chinese, pain in the a** to us who will have to replace them. Trip to Radio Shack.
    What if you forget to wave the wand and turn the off. Many trips to
    Radio Shack.

    When you let the Chinese design the product, they will do whatever is cheaper for them, not necessarily best for the customer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2009
  8. Pete Steinmetz

    Pete Steinmetz TrainBoard Member

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    After looking at Jim Wirt's collection of cars tonight, I have determined the battery to be a silver oxide watch battery. Size is listed as a 392 or LR41 or IEC = SR41. 1.5 Volts, 44 mAh capacity. All the same battery. Different manufacturers use different designations. The IM passenger cars use 2 per car.

    Dikgikey lists the Duracel version for $0.80 each. Radio Shack will sell you one for $4.99 + $2.00 shipping.

    Most watch makers that do replacement batteries will have these. Usually they charge $5.00 to replace a battery around here.

    The ones in the IM cars are made by an unknown Chinese company. They appear to be made by hand. These batteries are sold in China in quantity for $0.01 or 0.02 each.
    Definately not the quality of a Duracel battery.

    Would Intermountain knowingly design this from the USA and tell the Chinese how to manufacturer it. I doubt it very much. The design appears to be Chinese all the way. Intermountain said, "Make the cars have realistic lighting." The Chinese did that.
    The car lights look very good.

    The car itself is very nice. Painting is good, there are real grab irons, unlike the first run. MT trucks and couplers. Best of all, the price is the same as the first run, but the quality is much better.

    The downside is going to be for the person that forgets to turn off the lights and runs the batteries down. Then they have to go and find the replacements.

    Track power would have been a better design, but it would have made the car be more expensive.

    I am going to buy some of these cars right away.
     
  9. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    SCARRRRRRYYYY!!!!

    Well... cheap doesn't usually equate to the best deal... and batteries can have very disastrous effects if they are not made with good safety standards. At the prices you've quoted... I'd be real scared to keep these things in the car... either on or off. I'd be concerned with a leak or worse... sudden or unexpected combustion which could cause fire. I would probably change the batteries immediately to something known to be SAFE. BTW... a flicker free circuit with a capacitor can be dangerous too if the capacitor somehow fails.

    The idea of a track power method used by Walthers is now more desireable to me. The only thing that would make it better is a 'flicker-free' circuit. Jim Hinds of Richmond Controls has developed a flicker-free circuit board for the Walthers cars. Because the IMRC cars use Micro-Trains trucks... and thus do not have metal wheels or power pick-up... they chose instead to use batteries.
     
  10. Pete Steinmetz

    Pete Steinmetz TrainBoard Member

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    The "disastrous effects" are called "rapid dis-assembly" in the battery business.

    There is no chance of fire with this type of battery. There is more chance of leakage. Battery leakage will corrode the PC board.

    I would remove the batteries if storing the car for a long period.

    Jim Hinds (Richmond Controls) has perfected the use of track power used in lighting. His flicker free circuit is the best design available. The only downside is the cost.
    Batteries are cheaper and require less circuitry. Cheap batteries are plentiful in China.
     

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