Growing up in a NKP railroad family in the 40.s, 50's, 60's, etc and a grandfather who was a conductor, brakeman, switchman; a father, who was chief clerk to the trainmaster, a mother who was a stenographer who took many hearings of misaligned track devises and my father's cousin , who was a brakeman and switchman and having worked as a fireman in the mid 60;s with brakeman and switchman who by the wat were in the same union, they will always be switches to me. However, having spent my career as a ceramic engineer converting from metric to english and back, I can make this conversion easily for whomever I am conversing with. Enjoy the discussion. Jack S
LOL I did, I went down the the volunteer fire department and slipped on my "turnout" and headed outside to practice pulling hose. Nice and warm in this cold weather. :tb-tongue: Back at you! LOL Did I just hear our mother's saying "Now boys behave yourself"? hee hee hee
Jack, Wowwa, with a legendary history like that we rail family types have to stick together. Yes, enjoy the discussion. I just hung up my "turnout" locked up my gear and will play fireman yet another day. It's just an honorary thing. I can't really handle the job...any ways...anymore.
You say potato and I say potahto, You say tomato and I say tomahto Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto. Turnouts or switches...they are all one in the same.:tb-tongue:. *And BTW... "MOM!...Ricks picking on me !!"...." He started it!!" :tb-tongue: .
Totally confused now LOL Gee thanks for the replies. I think I may just buy some flex track and curves, and obviously some turnouts or switches, then put them together and send you guys some pics to get some critique. I hate to ask what I need to do to run wires for all this . Whew!!!!!!!! regards, Passy
Bingo. I have numerous drawings of proto turnouts, which are the entire track structure (what we modelers call a switch)... the switch is effectively the moveable portion of a turnout.
Exactly correct. The switch is the moveable part of a turnout from the head blocks to the heel blocks. It is just a part of the entire piece of trackwork which is known as a turnout. A brakeman can only line the "switch" for movement into a particluar track - the rest of the turnout does not move.
Okay, just to clarify: The entire section of track that we call a turnout is actually called a "turnout" by railroaders--except for the points, which are the "switch"? Did I get that right? Is this the terminology of the ATSF, or of all U.S. railroads? :tb-confused:
Chaya and of course all tuned in, To answer your question technically, that is correct excepting the bit about the railroaders calling it a "Turnout", as they... the hard working rails have always called it a "Switch". I'll give this a second go and try to explain it clearly... here in the next few paragraphs. A switch is made up of many parts of which the whole is one. Frog, points, movable switch, hand throw and flange guards are all that make the one, are referred to by engineering types as a "Turnout". ATSF, said, "A brakeman can only line the "switch" for movement into a particluar track - the rest of the turnout does not move." I hate to go technical on you but it is the "Switchman" not the "Brakeman" that traditionally "Aligned the switch". Now this may be confusing but try following this: Robbman said: ""Bingo. I have numerous drawings of proto turnouts, which are the entire track structure (what we modelers call a switch)... the switch is effectively the moveable portion of a turnout."" As is usual modelers are once again confusing the issue, (that or I will, for them...LOL). In response to Robbman's observation:Robbman, you've erred only in that "Some" of us modelers refer to the whole unit as a "Switch" most do not, calling it instead a "Turnout". Read on as I hope to settle this issue...not likely...but I can try. Grin! Model Railroaders since the 60's have referred to the gizmo that allows trains to switch from one track to the other as "Turnouts". Here in America whether it is the eastern railroads, midwest railroads or western railroads: The Rails that work the 1X1 foot scale call them "SWITCHES"...always have and most likely always will. Examples given, in one of my previous postings here on this subject, in this thread. According to the same railroads engineering departments, they call the mechanism a "Turnout" (strange little guys that run around with plastic pencil holders in their shirt pockets, slide rule sling shots and no social skills) and the "Switch", the part of the mechanism that moves the points. This would be correct from their perspective. Reminding you that the appropriate "LINGO" of the RAILS, ("Rails", referring to railroad employees and will here to fore be in reference to said employees) is "SWITCH" in reference to or a generic term describing the action taken when aligning the switch or points, implying title to said equipment. You've heard from two families of rails who called them "Switches" and one engineer who says the crews call them...what else? "Switches". Begging the question who is the authority here? And, establishing a tradition that spans many a generation of RAILs. Now if you want to walk in the shoes of the engineering department and persist in calling them "Turnouts," you would be technically correct but not in keeping with the RAILs TRADITION of calling them "Switches". To those who persist in calling a "Switch" a "Turnout" are technically correct but ignoring tradition of the RAILS, to refer to them as such, during model railroad operations. So, for all of you who call it a "Turnout", you need to step to the right and outside the door. For those of you who wish to keep the tradition of the RAILS alive and call them a "Switch", all of you need to step to the left for a round of your favorite beverage, on the house. Figuratively speaking...of course. It's all about the American "Rails," Tradition and whether or not you are in keeping with such. When you visit my layout they are called "Switches". Use the terminology "Turnout" and we go from the train shed to the wood shed. This issue will never rest as long as... I don't rest. Have fun, whatever verbage you decide to use. George, Funny, just toooooo funny!wink:
Yes, the entire section of track (including the points) that modelers call a turnout is also called a turnout by railroad maintenance of way personel and railroad civil engineers. It is standard railroad engineering terminology throughout the U.S. A track supervisor, for example, knows the difference between a turnout and the part of the turnout named the "switch" (which is basically the points). A train crew, on the other hand, may not be familiar with the term "turnout". They are not expected to know the proper names for every part of a railcar, nor are they expected to know the proper terminology for the many parts of the track. This is beyond the scope of their work. The "switch" (the points) is the part of the track that is important to them, as that is the name of the part of a turnout that they line to change their train's route.
Thanks for the information, atsf. What you're saying makes so much sense and explains why so many railroaders insist that the assembly is called a "switch." Thanks for finally clearing all this up!
Thanks ATSF for clearing that up...that just might work for most of us. Except...Rails, do know the details of their equipment better then most of us. In order to hold certain positions of responsibility they are tested on terminology, equipment, safety and rules of the railroad. The reason they call it a switch... is for reasons unknown, to most toy train enthusiasts and wild haired foamers. It all started with the first rails laid in America. After all it's pretty difficult to align the "Turnout". You can only align the "Points" by moving the "Switch". The switchman, not a turnout man handles the "Switch Work" and so on. You can't ignore the traditions of generations, of American Rails, who've called it a "Switch" and write it off that easily. Not... that it really much matters to most toy train types and/or foamers. Yes Sir, thanks again!
Train Shed becomes Wood Shed LOL Not much! laugh: When visiting my train shed...You don't want to say "Turnout", as I turn into a bit of a rampaging monster with snarling nostrils, gritting teeth, glazed over eyes and smoke bellowing out of my ears. Punishment for making such a mistake can be severe. You will be forced to sit and rail fan my model railroad and listen to expletives like ""Block, Clearance, In The Hole, Stretch, Highball, Flashing Red, Yellow Over Red, Emergency Stop, Slack, Slow Order, Requesting Clearance, Call Board, Local and SWITCH"". I can be more severe then that and force you to operate a train over my layout using the same expletives. Oh, you don't want to cross me on this issue. This isn't engineering, this is railroading, in all of it's finest tradition. Toy train enthusiast and wild haired foamers need not apply.frown: LOL
Pstttttttttttttt...to anyone who has been to Ricks train shed.... Did you happen to remember a strong odor of paint or laquer thinner? Maybe some other toxic odor? Just wondering...shhhhhhhhhhhh....:tb-wink::tb-wacky::tb-biggrin: .
No, but I do a real good water reclamation odor. wink: Perhaps the worst punishment for calling a switch a turnout. Oh, you weren't asking me...that's fair! Chaya said, ""Thanks for the information, atsf. What you're saying makes so much sense and explains why so many railroaders insist that the assembly is called a "switch." Thanks for finally clearing all this up!"" Not entirely. You, probably think I'm kidding around with all this talk about "Switch" versus "Turnout". I remember when toy train enthusiast first began to use the descriptive, engineering term "Turnout". Coming from a family of rails who's tradition was to call it a "Switch", to call it anything else... was a slap in the face. What right did model railroaders have changing accepted railroad lingo? Well, after all it isn't real railroading, we are just playing with trains and we can call it anything we want. And it goes on misinformation, piled upon more misinformation. Never mind. If I haven't made my point by now...I won't. If you haven't gotten it by now...it's not likely you will. Scoff if you will, but have fun doing it. Grrrrrrrr! So, do you have a "Turnout Crew" on your layout? I bet you even have a "Turnout Man". LOL
Ok, now that we've got the switch versus turnout terminology all out of whack, can someone tell me why a straight track is called a tangent? Isn't tangent one of those trigonometry concepts? You know, sine, cosine, and tangent? If sine is a/b, and cosine is b/a, and tangent is c/a, and cotangent is c/b, what's the tangent of a straight track? It isn't a triangle, for sure. Sorry to stir up the pot. Actually, I'm not sorry at all. Does tangent, used for straight track, describe a vector? I.e., the tangent is 63.45 degrees for 1.223 miles? But why use the word tangent?
Perhaps simply because in relation to any adjacent curve, the straight is a tangent. I don't know about trigonometry, but in geometry, the tangent is a straight line that continues from a curve in a way that no "kink" is formed. Wikipedia on Tangent
