I am in the beginning stages of planning a layout around the Arizona divide or more specifically focusing on Kingman to Williams. The layout is to be house in a spare room in our house which is 15' by 12' and is going to be the dedicated train room. I want the layout to be somewhat mixed in era, however, focusing on the present day operation. Williams will allow me to operate steam and early diesel and still keep the mainline concrete tie ME track without a problem. I will be running BNSF with occasional UP and would like some operation but mainly love the expansive train to scenic ratio that have made so many layouts on this forum so intriguing to me. There is striking scenic ability in this area and I have never seen it modeled in any scale and thus am excited to give it my best. I have many questions that I know you all have great answers or suggestions for. First is basic construction of single or double level? I would love some ideas on selective compression. What are some must includes and what are some things I can include for operation? I would like to use some photo backdrops and am wondering about the best source and if just getting to the locations that are modeled and taking photos and getting the enlarged would be the best idea? Some ideas I had for both the Grand Canyon and Phx branches were to have them go off into a loop and come back or to have them go into lower hidden staging and then come back. I have always wanted a round house and thus am going to take creative license to include this in the Williams operation. I would love to hear ideas you all have!! Thanks for the input Rob
A 15'x12' room is sufficient for a double-deck layout in N. It won't be enough to have the transition between decks visible. You still need a helix at this size. Note that when I say "double-deck", I'm talking two sceniced decks. Many double-deck layouts are actually three decks, with the lowest being staging.
Well you need to contact Verne Niner. He used to have an amazing layout of the AZ Divide in N scale . While he has since left N in favor of On30, he does have a wonderful CD of photos of the layout that may be a good guide for you. It can be found here: The Estrella Sonora Grande R.R. So for $8.00, it is a pretty good investment for ideas for your layout of the same general area. As a matter of coincidence, I am also doing the Arizona Divide plus. I am using topographical maps and other sources for special track areas etc. While I am running in the 1950's with the proto reverse running of the East and West mains because of the grades, your layout will not need that because in the 1960's, ATSF re-ran the eastern grade along a different route with less grade and returned to normal running of the East and West mains. Hope this helps, and another piece of advice... You will need a lot of trees!
I'll second the Verne Niner suggestion. His layout was one of the most awesome I've ever seen. I miss his input in the N scale forums here.
Thanks for the input I will order that disk this week to get some ideas. Anyone have ideas of must have scenes from this area?
I fell in love with the Divide on a cross-country Amtrak trip in 1972 and have modelled it ever since. Two years ago I again drove "Historic 66' from Winslow to Kingman, then down the Peavine to Phoenix, and over on the Arizona & California, as I'm modeling Winslow-Williams on my own Divide layout. The initial target was to stay in the restored "La Posada" as I've scratchbuilt the structure, it sure didn't dissapoint me. I was out there again last November between Flagstaff and Williams for almost a week and just completely OD'd on that area. I was stunned to find warbonnet GP60's parked in front of the Flag depot. Spent three days at Williams, rode the Grand Canyon, and got the $1000 tour of the railroad, overloaded the camera card twice. The canyon area west of Seligman, yeah, that's wonderful! I've got some shots I took myself, not a ton of them, but wow, I sure enjoyed that trip. One of the best decisions I ever made was to take the long way across Arizona to Kingman. I got pictures of Seligman just before they bulldozed it. So I've got photos, a lifetime collection, along with timetables, books...you name it. When I did my layout, I started with USGS topos and started collecting all the photos I could. I chose Winslow as it was the smallest division point I could locate, but the real center of the layout is the Arizona Divide area around Flagstaff. Railfans in the Flagstaff and Winslow areas sent me photos from the 70's that started me scratchbuilding all the structures in both towns, pretty well have that done now, particularly in Flagstaff. One motel to go and one hotel to redo. Lots of fresh layout shots over on the "M&ET 608' thread on the N forum - just put those up last week, that's what it looks like now. The story of MET 608 - Page 8 - TrainBoard.com I have a small layout, considering. Track plan is here: Third District Track Plan It's only 8' x 5'6, modular, and is in its third house since it was built. To me, the key to effectively modeling the Divide is to figure out how you're going to store, and pump through, the maximum amount of through traffic from storage and staging yards out of sight. That's where it starts and that's what determines the basic plan. The second consideration is whether or not you really think you want to permanently build into a room. I made mine removable, thank God, or I never would have made it this far. I scratchbuilt the Flagstaff station in....1977. That was my FIRST 'prototype' building on the PRECEEDING layout, its taken that long, and that layout was scrapped when I had to move and it didn't dissassemble. Since then, I've gone modular, and it's been steadily evolving. And it hasn't stopped, after I was out in Flag in November I tore out the entire area around the east end of Flag when I figured out a way to put another hidden staging (industrial) yard in representing Southwest Lumber Industries and use the Flagstaff wye and industrial trackage remaining segments as inspiration. I really liked that jingweed branch down to the oil tanks, I need to add more weeds and brush. You can imagine how surprised Verne and I were to bump into each other over on the Atlas board a few years back. It was the beginning of a friendship we still have, and I got to visit him and the On30 layout, but I missed his N layout. You'd think since we were modeling the same exact spot in the same scale (different eras) it would have not turned out that way, but he actually went out of his way to fill in some of the gaps I had. The background shots of Mars Hill in Flagstaff were from Verne's camera. Verne's influences can also be seen in my photography, its come a long way. When he went out of N scale, his characters "N Scale Norm", along with Sue, retired to a trailer just west of Flagstaff on my layout, but they still chase trains on the Divide, see the 608 thread. And I complain about trees constantly. I'm glad the layout isn't any bigger than it is, because making all those Ponderosas out of goldenrod has been just mind-numbing. If you look on the M&ET thread - the San Francisco Peaks visible northwest of the Flagstaff depot, I took that shot from my own camera, photoshopped it, adjusted it and printed it, and now its on the backdrop. My backdrops are horizon-line painted only, with a mix of commercial, real photos, you name it - to tell the story and the layout is REALLY NARROW so the backdrops are just critical. The other thing tricky about the Divide is the march of change. In 1972, the entire railroad looked different than it does now; signals, ballast color, now concrete ties. Virtually every building has morphed at least once. Flagstaff in 1972 was a kitchy mixture of bars and tourist traps, some downtown businesses, today it's more like Sedona North for the UNA college crowd impacts. Many of the trees on Mars Hill have succumbed to bark beetle, but in many places the forests are much denser than '72. Still fun to model, but if you're going for prototype modeling, it can be agonizing when you realize how much has changed. The tan-colored singles on the Flag depot, and the trim paint, are maybe the most obvious changes between what I model and today, but wow, its just everywhere now. There are two Merrick books that you're really going to want: SANTA FE TO PHOENIX: RAILROADS OF ARIZONA - Vol 5/Myrick and Amazon.com: The Santa Fe Route - Railroads of Arizona Vol. 4 (9780963379191): David F. Myrick: Books is the really good one for you. Now that the kids are in college, the other half of the basement is calling me. I'd still love to do a BIG version of the Canyon Diablo bridge, it will conceptually work (replacing the single track main under and behind Flagstaff). Not having Canyon Diablo on my layout is like missing Horseshoe Curve if you're modeling PRR near Altoona. If I was going further west (and I'm not)... and really did Williams instead of a spot on the control panel called Williams... 1) Williams has the same kind of 'railroad street' and Harvey house thing as Flagstaff, its mostly all there today, and theres a LOT OF TRAFFIC coming up out of Phoenix, I was stunned, as I stayed there. Great potential, particularly today, with the Grand Canyon railroad base there. 2) There was a roundhouse at Williams historically; may have survived up until the 60's during the line relocation. Myrick book has a great aerial shot. Also don't forget Ash Fork, that was the helper base. 4) Crozier Canyon. you could spend a lifetime getting and modeling that right, and it would be worth it. 5) Kingman - the water tanks with the Rt 66 have been there forever. Gotta do that, depot still there as well and a classic Santa Fe mission style. I'd seriously think about extending to Topock and putting in the bridge if you can.
