Actually its more like 50 years ago because I heard the cry of "high prices of the hobby" back then. Try justifying a $1.49 Athearn car kit being raised to $1.98 or MR going from 50 cents to 65 cents! Yes,that now familiar cry was heard "The hobby is getting to expensive!" That's why I suspect those that quit the hobby because of the cost may not be completely upfront or used that as a excuse to quit. And yes the bar is being raised by the average modelers as well as the more serious modeler. Of course the-and if I may with no malice intended- hobby dabblers is caught in the middle. I dunno guys but,the hobby is changing and we can see that more and more.
Larry ...no offense taken bud. BUT...if your definition of a 'dabbler' is someone who DOESNT buy at least 10 locomotive @ 150.00 apiece...every month...then I proudly wear the "Dabblers" jacket :tb-wink:. .
That would make me less than a 'Dabbler' (one *bargain* loco every couple of years). :tb-embarrassed: I'm the type of person that makes any LHS owner sigh. I come in to look every once in a while but rarely purchase anything.
I grew up with N scale. Got my first Atlas trainset when I was around twelve. What a POS!! But it was better than LoneStar rubber band drive. I think I paid around 13 dollars for the whole set. A few years later MiniTrix came along and raised the bar. Much better mechs. And MRC came out with their 2-8-4 and 2-8-8-2. The bar was raised again! But even though the bar was raised there was still plenty of cheap junk. As I have gotten older and more mature so has N scale. I dont think this is a coincidence. Take concert tickets. Back in 65 you could go to a Stones concert for five bucks. Now your lucky to get a ticket for 100 bucks! Why? Because as the fans have grown older so has their incomes grown higher and thus supply and demand. But there still are younger folks coming to the market with lower incomes. So there is a market there also. So basically I guess the manufacturers make what they think they can sell and make money on. Does a brass model have more parts than a modern plastic version? Not anymore and so the only way to make brass that can turn a profit is to make it in limited run. Maybe as few as a hundred pieces. So instead of paying $300 for a plastic bigboy I would have to pay $1,500 for an Allegheny(if I could get one). I look at where we are today and am so glad for what we have to choose from. Pretty much a price point and selection for everyone. Time to go listen to the Stones and play with trains......
TO ALL: This has been one of the most enjoyable discussions that I have had on any forum. Both sides have a valid point. I remember a Bachmann VP at one of the Rosemount shows a few years ago, stating that selling the "Cheap" starter sets paid the way for them to do the improved loco's and cars for the more serious modeler. I remember my father would buy, what he would call junk, engines and cars and rebuild them. That was his relaxation. but he came from an era that if you wanted to model a certain prototype, you built it. Now we can get models and kits of almost any car(I know that someone will disagree with this statement) and we complain that something is not right with it. Have we lost our modeling skills so much that we can't take a kit or used car, and convert it to a close or exact model of what we're looking for! As I see it, the lost skills of modeling (to quote the Zenmaster of Steam)is that looking at a loco, car or building as a collection of parts is, for the most part, gone.
No.A dabbler is somebody that dabbles in the hobby and finds reasons to quit the hobby at the first chance using any reason under the sun and perhaps the moon as well. I am sure you seen these types.They come on strong,sputter and fade away and as they fade they moan and groan about the hobby in general.. We use to call 'em "fly by nighters" and then some where along the line they became "dabblers" because they dabble in the hobby for awhile and disappeared. If I had to buy 10 locomotives at @150.00 I fear I would be in your difination of a dabbler.
Bruce,I suspect my hobby shop owner calls me Ebenezer after that famous miser we hear so much about around Christmas.
Yep, you're right...that's exactly my point. Tony stated it quite succinctly. I never said Tony's assessments were 20 years old, btw. He probably has about as accurate of a "take" on things as most hobby shop employees do. The "20 Year" thing was referring to something else.
I switched from HO to N scale because for me its more economically feasible.. Sure there's 150-200 loco's in each.. 20-30 a piece rolling stock.. But Im not willing to pay much more than 80 for a standard engine.. Im not gonna throw out 120 approx for a new stadard DC HO engines. I don't spend more than 15 a piece on freight cars.. I will spend about 20 for passenger cars. HO almost forced me out of the hobby because I couldn't afford to do it.. Sure to some of you it seems like a small difference.. Not for someone who isn't struggling but doesn't have a lot of extra finances to fiddle with.
Where could manufacturers go? To fewer quantities, lower number of releases and higher margin product. And of course, pre-order, which I think will eventually yield to pre-pay, at which point I will stop buying anything new. Atlas O used to be zero percent of that company's business. A source I trust told me recently it's now forty percent. How many Trainman cars (N or HO) do they need to sell to equal the manufacturer's margin on one O Scale diesel? Train stgres could be completely on board with this-- wanna make a buck on a box car or fifty on a loco? While I partially understand the analogy to video games and the demand for more/ better/ faster, I don't think this is a completely relevant comparison since the demand is several orders of magnitude higher for video games. I would think that even a "dud" game has unit sales of many times the best selling piece of rolling stock in any scale. (I do think that more straight track has sold over time than copies of Grand Theft Auto, though.)
I definetly think that we N scalers need to really put the contact with all the manufacturers into gear, high gear. I have continually sent requests over and over for GP-60M & GP-60B, and even though I receive few replies, I know it has to be on their radar. So, whatever it is that you are seeking, those models will most likely only be made from pressure put on the makers by us, the die hard N scalers. Lets keep up the letters, e-mails phone calls, they'll eventually get the message that we are a very large and powerful part of the Model Rail Road Hobby, and our needs will have to be met for us to buy merchandise. fatalxsunrider43
I see nothing wrong with asking for more different units! That's probably a better way to go at this point for our scale. Keep the pretty good level of detail on our products.. Just give us more to choose from!
I honestly don't think manufacturers give that much thought to requests. They look for prototypes that will have wide appeal, and can be used reasonably on a wide variety of layouts by people modeling different railroads. I think this is one reason nobody has come out with a new PRR K4 since minitrix dropped theirs. It's too distinctive when you go by the above logic. Even though there is a high demand for the model, it cannot really be used by most modelers - except for fun. It's been requested a lot, just look for the thread on the bachmann forums about an N scale K4, I think there's one on the Atlas forums too. Even when they do produce a relatively unique prototype, it is something pretty conventional in appearance. So there's a lack of locos with belpaire or wooten fireboxes, and a lack of tank locos, lack of camel backs, etc. Ultimately it just comes down to business, the improvement in quality of detail and running is because people buy models that run well and look good. It's probably not because people write in and say "don't make models with ugly handrails that run poorly". Since there is no monopoly of model railroading, manufacturers have to at least keep up with their competition, and ideally surpass them.
Just a point of contention, the only money being made on Atlas O scale is by Atlas. The margins are horrible for the hobbyshop. We don't and won't carry the stuff for that reason. It may be beautiful but we can deep discount HO and N scale and still make more money that selling Atlas O at full retail. Lionel is just as bad. I don't know who is crazy enough to carry it.
Well, what a discussion ... let's see, I've bought some of the cheapest and some of the best and been pleased and displeased at both ends. I'm convinced that I'll see some amazing technology developed in the next few years and that I'll benefit from that. Goody. We will all benefit from the growth of our market if we can adapt to it. Go with or get left behind, sorry. Or, make your own way. Yeah, its the LHS that is most threatened by all this. Does anyone know how to make a great LHS? Must be someone, hello? Here's a thought ... what does an LHS need to bring to the table that makes it essential to the transaction? Bottle that at a good price and there'll be lines at the cash register. "An' for all 'a that" with $3.50 added you could get Seattle's Best Cup of Coffee. No refill, though. baffled:
Here we go again... Local hobby shops are screwed. They're dropping like flies all over the country. Unless somebody figures out a way to complete with online sellers -- which would mean virtually no overhead --- they have no shot at surviving long term. Sure a few will because they're not interested in making much money or just don't have enough sense to call it a day. But that gets old. Then again most of those folks are old. LOL. I buy 98% of my stuff online. Why? It's less expensive in the long run and it's the same stuff. It's a commodity not a custom product where quality and service are issues. The service and pricing is great from Fifer and woo woo woo woo woo woo so what do I really need the local guy for other than shooting the ¤¤¤¤ and the occasional tube of glue? And how fair is it to beat the local guy up to "match" online prices? Not very. That just prolongs their ultimate demise. If they could sell stuff for 30% less and still make money don't you think they would? There have probably been hundreds of threads on this subject over the years. Things are getting tough not easier and the answers are more scarce than ever especially in this economy. Unlike the government I''m not aware of any of the local owners who can just print money or write to the home office to send more.
