Hobby Shops & the Hobby Dying Out--Doesn't sound like it!!

Well... HMA report is interesting... but I tend to agree with a few others that it paints a rosier picture of the model railroad hobby than may be the reality. I've lived in SoFL for over 40 yrs and beginning in 1988 things really began getting better with two TRAINS only hobby shops opening within driving distance. These two shops are still around... but... I don't think they're doing as well now as they were 5 yrs ago. I won't name them... but... at least one has been known for years to be an N scale heavyweight (not so much anymore). These shops are (IMHO) and by some conversation with their owners... not very profitable now and perhaps have only a few years left unless there is a major shift in interest into model trains. They may have to adapt to the market and sell more stuff OTHER than model trains to survive. My heavy buying days are pretty much over... unless there is an incredible change in my personal financial situation... I won't be supporting these brick'n mortar local hobby shop (LHS) beyond the occasional Micro-trains purchase. The retailer nearest to me supplies most of my current purchases... except that they will not pre-order items without a firm commitment from their customers. They can't afford to 'stock' items without a firm order. I am now relegated to waiting to see if I can afford some items. I have made exceptions (D&RGW Challenger)... and other D&RGW items I know the B'nM LHS will not stock. This was not the case years ago... it is a current reality of our times... retailers cannot take a chance with unsold inventory. I just don't see the HMA report as being complete... and perhaps as mentioned... self-serving. If it does generate new interest in the model railroad hobby... then I'm all for it... but... I just don't think these reports really help.

 

After reading these kind of post over the years and thinking about it, I have come to the conclusion, that the amount of LHS that sell trains has little or no bearing on the hobbies growth.
Most Train shops were started many, many years ago and the owners die or retire yet people keep buying and companies keep making stuff.

Very, very few people want to buy or take over some ones run down small, and mostly out of date model train business. I sure would not.
To be successful in to days retail world is to be big and carry what makes the most money not what you personally would like to stock.

And for Model trains that formula is a big modern looking store. It does not need to look like an Apple store.
It just can not look like it was last remodeled in 1973 and at least a medium to large online presence.

Oh, and now that all is well, I now feel like a large mug of cold diet cola.:happy:

 

I've said it before...the era of the single interest hobby shop is gone. You can not survive on one segment of the market alone and thrive. A full line hobbyshop is the only way to make it. You have to have sales from all segments to pay the bills. Our shop is full line, including RC, Models, Gaming, some toys, Rockets, Slot cars, Science merchandise, etc. etc. One day a big RC sale may carry the day, the next it could be somebody starting model railroading. Through the fall and winter months, Models and Railroading do better, in summer, RC hobbies carry the sales. If we had to live on model railroading sales alone, we wouldn't be around long and we are the shop in town for N scale and starting to win over the HO guys. The only thing that keeps RC sales viable in the winter is the Holiday buying season and a few local indoor RC car tracks.

The big railroad only shop is just going to be more and more of a rarity as everybody expects the Big Box, one stop shopping store experience, even at the LHS. It's not unusual to ring somebody up at the register with a couple pieces of cork and track, some RC servos and a toy for their kid. It's amazing how many modelers have more than one hobby they participate in.

 

Yep, same here.. RC pays the bills and leaves the lights on. The models and trains are starting to expand, but they need time. But at least you can get paint and stuff for projects.

 

There is a balance to be struck. Most of the hobby stores in my area that are privately own are dedicated hobby shops. That is, they carry mainly one or two interests.

Where most small stores loose my business is having a handful of items of the type I am into (usually the same ones that have been there for over three years) and offer nothing more. Get me looking. If you can keep me there for more than fifteen minutes, there's a good chance I'm going to buy something. Sure, they can order it in... sometimes, but if I have to drive back into town to pickup an order it's FAR more effective for me to order online.

Also, the days of asking MSRP are long gone. Not saying it has to be cheaper than any place online, but don't charge "retail" when you can get it shipped to your home for 20% less.

Many hobby shops would do well to keep an area where people can enjoy their purchase (or come back in for a nominal fee). There are many places that do a fair trade in slot car tracks (yes, even today) RC car tracks and the like. However, I haven't seen one that offers an actual layout you could enjoy your train on, but I have heard of them. Many places just don't have clubs.

Oh, and one of my big gripes: Stay open hours that people want to come in. Most of us work Monday-Friday and mainly daytime jobs. So if you only want to go to a hobby store, Monday-Friday 10-4 and Saturdays 10-2... good chance I'm not going to be able to buy anything from you. I can't tell you how many hobby stores do business or I should say fail at doing business, like that. Stay open until 6pm on Friday and Saturday at least, if not 8.

I like to buy locally when I can, but some of the above issues are what deter me from some of my local stores. There are many times on weekends when I am working on something where I need a hobby item. My only available choice that's open after 2 on a Saturday is a Hobby Lobby craft store 40 minutes away. Other then that, I'll have to wait until the next weekend before I can get to the LHS. OR I can just order online, get the item for the same price or cheaper (shipping included) and have it before the next weekend.

But, it's entirely possible I am the only one that would come in on a weekend after 2pm. And I mean that seriousy. I know some of the LHS have crafted their hours based on experience. But is experience from thirty years ago still true today? I don't know and I am unlikely to start a LHS myself in the near future.

 

Very true.

Regarding a resurgence in the hobby, I have seen more than a couple parents looking at hobbies as a way to get their kids off the internet and video games. Additionally the most recent generation rearing kids, were pretty hands off. Some newer parents seem to be looking to connect with their children, which I'd say are about 50% of the people showing up at our clubs' open houses (though I haven't been to one myself since the birth of my own children a couple months ago... that'll change soon enough).

 

I love visiting the LHS as it is a source for local clubs and events........but the internet stores are easier to find what i need and with the hours i work at my job its easier to shop too. Plus u see companies like "Exactrail" cutting the LHS out of the chain, thats not good for the brick and mortars as with any industry, if someone does it and makes money, others do it too.....railroads, airlines, banks, etc etc

 

The more I look at it,I must just live in a stupid area.Three of the shops that closed here were run by people just a little older than me,and had EVERYTHING..RC,trains,LEGO,models,pretty much everything you could imagine,all gone.There isn't an RC or slotcar track within 100 miles,it's even 30 miles to the nearest flying field.The only real hobby shops are at least 75 miles away,and their prices are loony..Surprisingly,other than the big RC only shop that just opened that I mentioned,there's only one other big,brand new shop here,even a new 100 X 50 building..Sells NOTHING but Lionel...

 

Again, the places I've lived, Chicago Suburbs, Portland Suburbs, San Diego Suburbs(SoCal) and Sacramento Suburbs have all had train only shops that are thriving within the metro areas at least if not literally close by.

And yes, hours are a problem. Many mainstreet businesses have realized this, hobby stores, in general seem to drag their heels. Although I know many shops that are closed on Monday instead of Sunday. Evening hours are still a problem. I have sympathy, but if you wanted to work bankers hours, you should have become a banker and if you wanted to work 9-5, you should have become a corporate drone.

Also, I think you need to remember that we've been through a recession and are now in what some call a depression for the last 4-5 years. So, its hard to judge what the nascent hobby draw would be if the economy were moving along at full pace. I can say with confidence that prior to 2008 there were many new "hobby" type shops opening. Often specialty game shops and non-train hobby shops, but the hobby industry in general is definitely making a come back, or was. And, sometimes, it's worth checking into those non-train shops.
There's a local place in Sac called Viking Hobby. They focus on model kits, Wargames and roleplaying. So, you'd think they wouldn't have much for the model railroader, but Wargame miniatures get bases that are sceniked. War game maps are becoming far more detailed. I was in that store a few months ago and bought a small can of Static grass that was meant for war gamers. It's just Silflor rebranded. She was telling me that she had gone to the National Train Show last summer in Sacramento, even though she doesn't sell a lick of model railroading stuff. She was begging Scenic express to become a local dealer and they were making those plans. She could sell much of their stuff to war gamers and it would mean a local supply for the modelers (The closest Scenic express dealer to me now is in Lodi which is about as much in gas as shipping is from the website).

I've seen some heavily scenicked slot car tracks too. So, in general, things may be looking up.

 

Speaking from a manufacturing experience , the LHS would need to spend a lot of money for inventory that may only turn 2-4 times a year. at 20% monthly cost on that money , rent etc . that is a lot of working capital tied up in invetory that moves marginally so they need to diversify inventory that will turn 12 times a year ( make that different hobbies - RC, crafts, static models , art and so forth ) just to keep the cash flow moving . So if your house is seriously drowning and you are being asked to take a pay cut or no raise .... you hobbies take the hit first vs food, mortage, car payment , insurance, I know , I been there , 5 kids and making less than 20k a year ..actually working only 9 months out of the year.

 

Well I wouldn't say that the hobby is dying; however it is going through a down cycle. Peoples values have changed and the hobby reflects that and the economy has had a profound effect as well. Like with other cycles it will rebound but not anytime soon iMHO.
But one thing we can do to make sure that it does is pass the hobby on down to the youth; which has not been done to the degree that it once was. A good reflection of that would be the recent Convention in Medford. How many young folks were there?????

 

Oh no, I think Kids are still really in to trains. Last year at International Railfair our local show and swap meet and at recent GTE (or whatever it's called) there were kids all over the place.
Thomas the tank enigne is big business as is Chuggington. Heck, I just saw on PBS a show called Dinosaur train which is quite literally a bunch of Dinosaurs riding a train. Talk about hitting all the little boy buttons.
I live in the Sacramento area. Do you realize how many kids frequent the California State Railway museum? How many parents buy passes because of their kids? The toy train area upstairs with the Thomas tables is a regular madhouse.

Trains are definitely popular with the younger set. I have a friend down in the San Diego area whose toddler son is so into trains that a Ride on the Coaster is one of his biggest rewards. Some of his first words were "all aboard."

I think, if I were to point to any specific problem with the hobby, it's that a large set of the manufacturers have moved away from the Uncle Irv model.
Not to apply political rhetoric to it, but there are the model trains for the 1%. Your BLI or MTH, your DCC sound equipped/exact rail/$40 a car stuff (and yes I know that was mostly an HO list, but it applies to N as well though perhaps not as badly) And then there are the Bachmanns and Walthers of the world with precious few in between.

The fact is the American consumer is itself a changing demographic as well.

 

We focus on Kids, because kids are where a generic love of hobbies and a love of trains in general starts. I know plenty of people that started in the hobby as adults, I don't know any that started being in to trains as an adult. Kids are Malleable, adults are not. Kids can be influenced far more than adults and kids can drag parents into the hobby with them. So kids need more of a focus than any adult does in terms of exposure to the hobby and the concept of hobbies. Adults get it already.

And while I do know plenty of adults that started into the hobby late. By far, most of the people I know in the hobby started as kids.

 

I wonder though, how the statistics on a web forum, an activity that MUST skew towards adults relate to the overall statistics on model railroaders?

I mean, I know plenty of modelers who would never ever visit any forum. I'm lucky if I can get the entire club membership to check their email and it's only recently that all of them had an email address to check.

I would posit that any web forum on model railroading is going to skew adult and skew new to the hobby, especially in the year 2012, many years after the internet and webforums became big. Simply because they are the ones looking for information and also the ones least likely to have a "meat world" Hobby support system of friends.

And still, that doesn't really address the fact that adults, while they may be searching for information and help, don't need the more basic support that leads to establishing these kinds of activities. Kids do.


Which is not to say that you aren't right to point out that kids don't need to be the sole focus in terms of improving Hobby Demographics, I think though that kids require more work to involve and that in general, for the hobby, getting them young is better than getting them old.

To add a little black humor. Think of the Bachmann GS4 daylight as a pack of Camel Cigarettes and you are the Ad Exec. Hook the kid on that Daylight and you have them for life.

 

YoHo has the right idea. The internet forums are going to skew to early to middle age adults. Young kids are generally not allowed to surf, older modelers often have no use or desire for the internet. The forums that I visit that do post age as part of the profile, most active members seem to be between 25-45.

In our N trak club out of 35 members, 4 do not have an e-mail or internet access and some that do, never check their e-mail anyhow. We have members ranging from their early 20's to late 70's. Our biggest problem is that we don't have a lot of older, retired members, making it hard to find people off of work at the right times for layout setups.

Our shop has many older customers that still do not trust buying things from the internet. We also have more than our fair share of younger modelers. It is refreshing to see a 12 year old young man that saved and earned for a couple months be able to come in and buy a Broadway E6 set and Kato passenger set in one hit.

I operate on a newer layout with a group of about a dozzen guys. Information is passed via e-mail but most of the members of the group never venture onto forums. Many of them are long standing NMRA members and master modelers that spend more time modeling by not participating on the forums. They often say they don't go onto forums for just that reason. They would rather be modeling than talking about it.