Any opinions on this controller? Preamble: Beginning Z scale modeler (two years) My situation: I have a small semi-permanent layout that is a Christmas only affair with two separate loops and some passing & yard trackage, complete with a 2 foot lighted decorated Christmas tree and presents in the middle. While it is hardly serious modeling it's cute, it's PRR, the kids love it and it has enabled me to amass 3 locos and more than 50 freight cars without having to file for divorce. ;-) I run a MT GP35 on the inner loop and a pair of MT GP9's on the outer but as most already know, these two locos will not run at the same speed off one DC controller, in my case a MRC/MT Modified 1300 so I figured I'd cut my losses, do some rewiring and buy TWO separate controllers. I like the physical size of the Rokuhan RC02 because my situation requires me to sit the controllers on a window sill next to the platform. I also like the battery/AC adapter option and some of the other features I'll probably never use. Since I typically run my layout at a crawl in boring circles except when I do a little switching, simple is all I need. I also like the price. I considered some fancier options but I was scared away from pulse/momentum and what I hoped would be a perfect solution; a Tech 4/Dual by more knowledgeable Z scalers. Unfortunately I couldn’t log on yesterday to put the horse in front of the cart and solicit pre-purchase opinions so I ordered two based on availability issues which I assumed would only get worse the closer we get to the holidays. Getting them for $26 each didn’t hurt either. Based on anyone’s experience did I make a wise choice for my needs? Thanks in advance for any input!
Rokuhan C002 only has constant lighting circuit and it is easy to minimize this so it does not affect your slow speed operation. There is a small red lever on the outside of the main speed knob plus a small grey lever. To disable the constant lighting turn the main knob full Counter clock wise to the stop. The red lever is the pointer and the grey lever is the constant lighting level. With the grey lever at 6 o'clock position. now your knob operates just like a regular DC controller. If you want to have the head lights on your engines on you can move the grey lever clockwise until you see the lights come on and then if you turn the speed control your engine will start to go when turned clock wise and and will stop if turned counter clock wise but the head light will stay lit. If you are not interested in the constant lighting the controller acts just like a normal controller or a C001 controller and headlights come as the engine starts to move or close to that point. There is a very fast acting circuit breaker if you overload the controller and it shuts everything down and to resent just turn the power switch off and then when turned back on the green light will come on to indicate track power has been reset and your ready to go again. The unit will operate on *x AAA set of batteries or from a wall transformer. you can use rechargeable batteries but you have to take them out to recharge as the wall transformer is not a charging unit it only provides power and when plugged in it disconnects the battery pack from the controller. The C002 controller also has the facility to snap onto the side of your C002, a turnout controller and to power and control your remote turnouts provided they are also from Rokuhan. cheers Garth
I assume the constant lighting circuit is why I see voltage output on the RC02 with a DVM even though the controller knob is all the way to mininum? The loco doesn't run nor are the lights on but I still read voltage, 11-12 VDC to be exact even though the paperwork says the output is supposed to be 10VDC. I didn't measure current FWIW. The grey lever is at 6:00 BTW. On my 1300 with the knob at the same position I read 0 volts. I just want to make sure I don't damage any locos.
Llanerch Crossing with your post bein unsigned I can not address you by name. Constant lighting is achieved by inserting a high frequency AC voltage on top of the DC track voltage so with a DVM set to read DC volts yes you will see a voltage but you will also see it when set to read AC volts. To properly see what is happening you need a scope, but if you put your multi meter on VAC setting you can see the constant lighting voltage and you can see it change when moving the grey lever. If you advance the grey lever with the red lever tight up against it you will see a rise in the constant lighting voltage and eventually you will see the headlight on your engine light up while the engine is still stationary, but you have to do this slowly or you will put enough AC out to power the motor. With the engine stationary you can move the lever and see the brightness of the headlight change in brightness and if you advance the constant lighting lever far enough your engine will start to move, but it you turn the grey lever until your headlight or lights come on medium bright. then advance the throttle control your engine will start to move and you can change direction and your headlights will change direction if they have diodes to turn on and off with the direction of your engine, so your engine runs just like a standard DC engine should. return your main control towards Zero and your engine will stop when the red pointer is against the grey lever if it is set properly. Constant lighting is designed to light passenger car interior lighting while the train is stationary or moving and it eliminates any flicker and changes in brightness with change in power to the engine. If you have any of the products from Rokuhan with interior lighting or from Tenshodo you can use this feature. It works with either incandescent lamps or LED lamps that have a circuit on the light board for constant lighting. proper setting of the CL circuit is to advance the lever until your Engine head light comes on or your passenger cars are illuminated, so the idea is to light the train while still stopped, once adjusted leave the grey lever alone and use the grey knob with red pointer to operate your train like a normal DC controller. Here is the caveat. not all dc engines like the CL voltage so if you hear your engine growling or moaning then it might not like the superimposed AC of the CL circuit and it is best not to use CL with this engine. Most a modern motors of the can type seem to operate in this environment without problems but many open frame motors are not happy with constant lighting. Those motors that you hear a noise from may overheat and smoke or burn in this environment. so far I have found Tenshodo, Rokuhan, Micro trains Geeps and Sd40 do not have problems in this environment. and the AZL SD75. best regards Garth
Garth: Thank you so much for the information! Last night I attached my DVM set at DCV across the power leads with a loco on the test track and I saw the low voltage I expected so I was somewhat relieved. Your explanation confirmed my suspicions regarding voltage even though I still can't seem to get the CL to work on my loco lights although I haven't had much time to play. Could it be a loco issue or am I just doing it wrong? So far I tried it with a MT GP35 but I also have two MT GP9's. All-in-all I am pleased with the controllers for my simple requirements, especially the small size and AC/DC input option. Thank you again! Nick
FWIW to anyone contemplating this controller, according to a reply I got from Rokuhan the RC02 constant lighting circuit will NOT work with my Micro Trains loco headlights except VERY dim and getting brighter as the power/throttle is increased; in other words it doesn't work. This is a relief since no matter what I tried it didn't work for me either. It is definitely not a deal breaker for me since I didn't need the CL anyway. Thanks for a forum to ask these questions and expose my ignorance.
Another update on this controller and some more questions: According to my eyes (when I opened it up) and a confirmation e-mail from Rokuhan, the grey constant lighting "stop" does nothing but stop the main throttle knob. In other words it doesn't turn a second potentiometer that specifically controls the constant lighting (CL) voltage. So for the folks that just want to use it as a DC controller, there is essentially NO off position for the CL. That means that regardless of where the grey stop is positioned; 6:00, 12:00, 3:25...CL voltage is applied when you advance the throttle knob. I bought two of these controllers for a small Christmas layout supplying power to two completely separate loops. One loop is an oval with two power connection points; no turnouts, no nothing. A simple stupid loop like a 5 year old kid would build. I run an MTL GP35 and maybe 13 cars on that loop and I had tons of running issues using the Rokuhan RC02 including dead stopping, lousy slow start up, lousy slow speed, lousy everything. After cleaning the track 2000 times and cleaning the loco 2 times things improved for awhile until I discovered a problem with the track power connector, (one of the pins pushed inside of the connector so it made intermittent contact). The problem was easily rectified BUT the running problems continued after awhile. Meanwhile on my other loop with lots of turnouts, passing sidings and a ton more track I am running doubleheaded MTL GP9’s and about 30 cars with NO problems, great slow speed, great smooth slow start-up..bla, bla, bla...So I cleaned my simple loop again, cleaned the loco again, tweaked a track joiner on a curve (that I suspected was snagging an oversized loco wheel flange), disconnected the RC02 and connected my MRC Micro Trains modified 1300 and my GP35 is running like a Swiss watch with great slow start, slow speed and braking. So I can only conclude that the MTL GP35 or quite possibly MY particular MTL GP35 just doesn’t like the Rokuhan RC02 constant lighting voltage which brings me to my questions: Despite the fact that my doubleheaded GP9’s are running fine and I assume are not being damaged by the CL voltage, my experience with the GP35 makes me want to replace both RC02’s with something else. The easiest solution would be to just buy another 1300 but smaller is better in my application. I have looked at the Snail but batteries only doesn’t necessarily appeal to me although I could be convinced. I am intrigued by the Medvend AN1-C Panel mount since I could put two in my own small enclosure but: What the heck is Pulse Width Modulation, (PWM); and is it safe for Z scale motors? Is it similar to the “pulse” or “momentum” features I’ve seen on MRC power packs that I was told are NOT good for Z scale motors? Do any other power controllers have PWM, like the 1300 for example? When I hear the word “pulse” I think AC; is PWM a DC thing or an AC thing? Is there any way to disable the CL voltage in the RC02? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide!
Hi, I'm not familiar with the Rokuhan unit, but I can help with the technical questions. First PWM is not AC, AC varies between a positive and negative voltage. Pulsed DC is just that: a fixed polarity DC voltage that is applied to the loco a regular intervals. Early pulsed power supplies would produce a variable voltage at a fixed pulse rate. I've heard that this sort of DC can be bad for the older motors, but don't know why nor have I experienced it myself. I suspect its more legend than reality. PWM produces a variable rate pulse at a fixed maximum voltage, usually 8V for Z scale. So 10% throttle is 8V on for 10% of the time. PWM is the "gold standard" these days for controlling variable speed motors from electric trains to electric cars. I know the "Snail" type controllers are PWM and the DCC decoders produce PWM power. The "momentum" feature is pretty much independent of how you supply power. It refers to the rate that the controller changes the track power in response to changes to the throttle, simulating the resistance of a proto train to changing speed. As for the GPs, the MTL GP9 and GP35 are the same under the hood and should all perform the same. They should run at about a scale 30MPH at 5V and an initial burn-in run. You might want to review some of the loco tuning posts here. Regarding the Constant Lighting, most methods rely on the fact that LEDs are actually current devices and as such light-up whenever there is any current flowing in the tracks. Such devices don't care what the voltage is which is why the lighting is unaffected by voltage. The lighting boards of the GPs could be modified to take advantage of the CL. Hope this helps, Mark
The Snail and Medvends are the same, just different packaging/options. You can get a Snail (handheld) with the DC power option and find a 9 volt wall-wart to power it. Or the more recent naked mount it on a panel type, also a higher current version (only if you want to run MTL F7's or Märklin locos, not needed with any of the other MTL or AZL locos. As Mark says, these are simple PWM outputs and will run you locos well, especially at low speeds. Be careful about the wall-wart, if you choose the hand-held as he uses the non-typical (-) center polarity. Virtually every wart in the world is (+) center polarity! 10 volts is ok too, and they'll run 'forever' on a 12v wart, just don't stall the loco as there will be a *much* higher power factor in this case. Make sure the wart is a *switching* type (*very* light weight electronics, like all your new devices), *not* a heavier transformer [oft catagorized 'unregulated'] as these type only deliver the 9 volts at the Rated current and a 30-40% higher voltage at no or light Z scale loads. A 9 volt @500ma transformer type pack will deliver ~12volts with no/light loads.
Constant lighting in Japanese Model trains as a way to keep the cars lit no mater what the DC track voltage is. It required locomotives and cars that are designed to run on Constant Lighting(CL). IN Z to date the Z scale power packs with CL are the one from Pro-Z that came with the Dioramas and was also available separately for awhile. The trains trains of Pro_Z are all equipped for this. Also those of Rokuhan and Tenshodo. CL is achieved by imposing a high frequency AC signal on the DC line and it is independent of the DC voltage but can add to it in some cases with DC only engines. This is where the stop on the Rokuhan unit helps. It sets the reference point at which your engine starts to move. So you can increase the and decrease your engine speed and come to a point where you engines has zero speed. This is just a mechanical stop or indicator and does nothing electrically. For constant lighting you need to have a circuit that essentially is a full or half wave rectifier so that the lamp or lights are seeing a constant voltage regardless of the polarity of the DC as it is looking at the high frequency AC not the DC as it source. An MTL LED headlight is only going to be seeing half of the CL voltage as it is a diode and hence DC polarity responsive. So with an AC voltage source it is only going to light when the sin wave is in positive or negative side of curve but no both not on both sides. So this means that the headlights at both ends will be lit at 50% and will get brighter as you increase the DC when going forward the forward headlight will go full bright when throttle is full up. The main feature of CL lighting is virtually flicker free lighting on clean track and cars and headlights stay lit when train is stopped on the line. Here is a link to Rokuhans video on who to use this controller. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAjGe7qgak So when first running an engine using this controller use the grey marker to turn speed knob until train moves, then reposition it to a point just before the engine moves. This removes the effect of the AC voltage on the DC line voltage as seen by your engine as gives you a zero speed point. This just sets the point where the motor starts to rotate under the combined voltages and is essentially you zero speed point on the control knob. It is going to be different for each engine and it is also sensitive to how heavy a train it is pulling, or to put it another way the starting or break out load on the motor. There is not question there is a learning curve with this controller if you want to operate it like a snail or Mendvend controller, but I have been able to operate my two DCC equipped GP35's one with ditch lights using this controller so I can see the cross over between the two voltages, before the engine starts to move the ditch lights are flashing at a different rate than that of the DCC decoder and just as the engines starts to move it resumes normal flash rate. My TCS decoders will operate the Ditch lights in flashing mode when powered by DC if that was the active mode when I last used the engine on a DCC throttle.
First of all, thanks for the technical info! As far as the MT GP35 & GP9's being the same under the hood, I hear you and heard the same thing from my local dealer as a quote from Micro Trains but he also told me I am not alone in the "my GP35 runs way faster than my GP9 at the same voltage" club. As a matter of fact, this is the reason I went with two controllers in the first place. As Ricky Recardo says, "I can't 'splain it" except to say that everything about MY GP35 is different including how it behaves with the RC02 controllers. As a part time slot car racer, I have seen the same thing with "supposed" identical armatures. Some are just faster in identical chassis. Of course that's the armatures I am always looking for! Thanks SJ & Garth too!! I think that I may order a couple of Medvends, put them into a nice small enclosure and sell the RC02's
changing the power pack won't change the spots on the loco that runs slow. These things are assembled on an assembly line so they are not all going to be the same. I can take my engines apart and re-build them so have a fair bit of experience in what can go wrong in the assembly process. There are three common causes for a slow running engine. 1. the chassis screws (6) are too tight, 2. the screws holding the truck side frame in place on the bottom of the truck(2 per truck) are too tight. and 3. during assembly one of the shaft delrin bearings was not properly placed so the dimple is down in the pocket, this locator is only on one side of the chassis shell only, this locator is to keep the bearing from rotating in the chassis but if not place properly when the two halves of the chassis are assembled and the screws tightened, if not located correctly can de form the bearing so it pinches the shaft and puts a load on the small motor, and even after being run in will not match it cousins in performance. I use a 200-0-200 bidirectional milliamp ammeter in one leg of my track feed to see what the starting load is on the loco. Then by adjusting the tension on the chassis screws and truck screws, individually, one at at time, after removing he shell I can zero in on what the reason is for that engines performance and rectify it. There are three solutions, 1. send it back to Micro Trains to be fixed, but call them first, 2. find someone locally who can do this type of fix, usually someone who is well known or his or her ability locally, or 3. learn to do it yourself.
Garth: My problem isn't a loco that runs slow; it's a loco that runs fast-ER!! I assume my two GP9's (AKA the slow-ER locos) are fine because they both run identical to one another and the likelihood I bought two brand new GP9’s, both with tight screws or bearing issues is probably pretty small. My GP35 on the other hand runs way faster than either GP9 at the same voltage on the same track and always has. It also reacted completely different (negatively) to the RC02 which leads me to the conclusion that despite what Micro Trains says, there is a difference between their GP35 & GP9 products or at least there WAS a difference when I bought my GP35 two years ago. It isn't really a big deal because I run them on separate tracks with separate power and most likely always will unless I expand my layout in which case I will splurge and go DCC. In the mean time I heard David K. Smith is coming out with a new mini controller so I may just wait for that. Thanks again all for your help & guidance!!
Joe, I think you have the panel mount version of the snail and David K. Smith's controllers confused. The former is available now from Rob Kluz, and David's is going to be released by Karin Snyder sometime in the future, at least that's my memory of it. -JamesTraction
I decided to update this thread to give the board an update on my RC02 controllers in case anyone is contemplating purchasing them, or using them with MTL locos. If you don't feel like reading through the entire post, to summarize my situation: I was using two RC02 controllers to control two separate loops of track on a small layout used at Christmas time. The locos are a pair of MT GP9's & a single MT GP35. I was having nothing but issues with poor performance from the locos despite numerous power connections, vigilant track cleaning and loco maintenance. I had concerns the constant lighting circuit was somehow the culprit but I was alone in this assumption. Fast forward to 2014, I got out the layout and did EXACTLY the same pre-set-up track & loco cleaning routine I did last year except that I ditched the RC02's for two MTL MRC 1300 controllers and... ...my locos now run like Swiss watches at any speed and my track which was getting dirty constantly and always leaving black marks on a cleaning rag, is now staying miraculously clean. Draw you own assumptions but I can only determine that my locos didn't like the RC02's. BTW - I have two RC02's for sale...CHEAP!
Nick, I have a similar situation with a figure 8 layout under a christmas tree. I'm using Rokuhan track and an AZL Mikado. The track is not secured right now, just clicked together. Originally, I was using the Rokuhan RC03 controller. I found that it worked pretty well--the train would run reliably for hours at slow speeds around the track. I then put a TCS Z2 into my Mikado and when I tried to run it again, the train would lurch forward then backward then forward, etc. It was very alarming so I didn't let it do that for long. But, having converted my Mikado, I had to switch over now to the NCE PowerCab that I had been intending to use _eventually_. I find that the DCC is not nearly as forgiving of the temporary nature of the track layout as the RC03 was. It runs fairly reliably (with occasional stops) at about speed 17 (on a 128 scale), but it gets worse the slower I go from there because the track connections aren't good enough (I guess) for the DCC signal. But, until I added the decoder, I thought the RC03 was quite good even with the temporary nature of the track. (Disclosure: I've been doing this for a month or so, so have no real depth of experience to compare to.) -Tito
