N Scale Locomotives With Sound...

mtntrainman Jul 27, 2015

  1. Mike C

    Mike C TrainBoard Member

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    I look at it this way . The new berk cost me a certain amount of money . The addition of the sound decoder to the loco probably didn't raise the cost by very much . Maybe 25 bucks . So I don't feel that if I decide to re do the sound I'll be out much except the price of the new decoder . I bought most of my Bachmann steamers with DCC installed from the factory . And I ended up replacing the crappy stock decoders :D . Yes it cost me more , but it adds to the enjoyment of the loco . It's kinda like buying a 2nd car . You but something you really like , but you always end up spend money on replacing different things like wheels , tires , exhaust , .........
     
  2. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Well, try this (it's not a 5-chime Niagra, but I don't think you'd call it wimpy)



    John C.
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Sound for N scale has come a looooong way these past couple of years.
     
  4. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    That's a custom install - not the factory sound, which WAS wimpy. I tore out the factory board and speaker and rolled my own. Still, it shows what is possible in N scale these days with a little effort.
    And I'll leave you with this: an N scale VO-1000 switcher, that I installed sound in using an ESU LokSound and an 8x12mm cell-phone type speaker. I just love hearing this thing rumble around my steel mill scene on my layout:



    John C.
     
    bremner and chris castillo like this.
  5. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    For a while there will be 2nd hand as us olde geezers de-accumulate.
     
  6. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    "Rumble," really?
    All of these implementations for N scale sound leave me wondering - to paraphrase the old BK commercial - where's the bass?
    They all sound like a stereo system with the low frequency tone control dialed fully counter-clockwise.
    For those that like the sound quality, when was the last time you were in the presence of an operating locomotive?
     
  7. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    You are correct - there is no bass, and will never be given the size of speakers we have to deal with in N scale. But I don't mind it. I live about a quarter-mile off the CN mainline in central Illinois, and I can feel the ground shake when the CN's SD70's roll a train through town. But I'm not really interested in having that in my layout room; it would drive me insane after about 60 seconds. And the truth is that real bass requires very large speakers and very high power inputs to move a lot of air. If I need to get a bass fix, then I'll run up to my main stereo system (a pair of Magneplanar 1.7's fed by a 250/watt per channel Musical Fidelity amp and a Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofer that has it's own several-hundred-watt amp reinforcing the low end). I have a video done by one of my local train club members on pro Sony HD equipment of the Pere Marquette 1225 doing run-by's in Michigan, and if I crank up the volume, it's like I'm standing 20' from that fire-breather (which is approximately where he was standing when he made the video). I can shake the walls of my house with this setup if I want. I know what real bass sounds like, and I know I'm never going to recreate that in any scale model, even O scale. You just can't stuff a big enough speaker in the engines for that, and even the "high-bass" speakers available for O scale locomotives won't really get down below about 200hz with any authority. If you really want bass in a layout room, you'll have to wire up 15" subwoofers under the layout. I could do that, but as I said above, it's not really what I'm interested in - I find that the overall sound I've achieved sounds right given the size of the loco I'm looking at - it sort of "scales" down. YMMV, as the saying goes.

    By "rumble," I meant the unique cadence of the diesel engine. "Clatter" would have been a better word in this context. In moderation, I find it more fun than silence.

    John C.
     
  8. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    John...

    You do some great custom sound installs. I havent really followed your progress reports on doing them...however...I enjoy the videos of the finished product.

    That being said...

    It kinda reinforces my contention that manufactures should be able to cast or mill the frames or do up the tenders to the point just before installing a sound decoder and speaker..then STOP !! They could ship those locomotives to market with a stock DC board in them. The consumer could put in DCC or have the DCC install contracted out. I have a few 'Kobo Shopped' decoder installs bought finished from etailers and they work great ! I dont mind pay 'a little extra' for that service.

    Those who want DCC sound would find it easier to install what they want...as the hard part (milling etc) has already been done by the manufacturer. No one would have to pay for a cheap sound setup the manufacturer has decide to use. I can visualize a box of cheap sound decoders under a few modelers layouts.

    The manufacturer could just as easily include a weight block kapton taped into the area where the speaker goes for those who dont want sound but need the added weight the lose of frame material would produce.

    IMHO...the manufacturers could do some really simple, inexpensive things that doesnt force everyone to have to be sheeple and accept where the trend with sound in everything...like it or not...seems to be going.

    Thnxs for listening...
     
  9. rogergperkins

    rogergperkins TrainBoard Member

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    Again, John has expressed much of what I would have posted. I feel Bachmann made a very solid decision by offering their steam locomotives with dc/dcc. I purchased two of the 2-8-4s with dcc and sound and am satisfied with them. [I did make some CV changes John posted which improved performance.] I had already elected to have dcc and sound installed in a few steam locomotives and thus was already pleased, and delighted to have the additional enjoyment I derived from the dcc with sound locomotives. At age 75, I have seen 40+ years of change in the n-scale market and I am pleased those changes occurred.
     
  10. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Hi George.

    I completely agree. I'd rather buy a "DCC sound ready" loco and put my own stuff in it. I'm picky. The manufacturers, not so much.

    John C.
     
  11. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

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    Has any manufacturer offered an engine with "sound only" so far? I can't think of it happening so far, but I haven't been paying much attention either.

    I dislike running on layouts without sound. You lose a major component in my eyes. I have a pair of SD40M-2s I am going to try installing LokSound in. If that goes well, I'll start on my C44-9W's.
     
  12. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    The Bachmann Berkshire is available only with their "Sound Value" decoder installed, which is a stripped-down version of the Soundtraxx Tsunami. The decoder is dual-mode in theory (e.g., will run on straight DC), but I've yet to find a DCC decoder that did a really good job, or even a fair job, at handling straight DC. I disliked the Sound Value decoder even on my DCC layout, and replaced it with an ESU LokSound and a different speaker (video posted above). Much happier now. I think that the latest run of the Athearn Challengers and BigBoys are sound-only, too.

    John C.
     
  13. Virginian Railway

    Virginian Railway TrainBoard Member

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    Not sure, but I think BLI's PRR M1 will be sound only.
     
  14. Virginian Railway

    Virginian Railway TrainBoard Member

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    Don't you mean in your ears? :p;)
     
  15. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    John, your VO-1000 sounds excellent. My complaint with the Berk's whistle could be mitigated by adding the VO-1000's lower frequency to the Berk's whistle. This would expand the tone, making it fuller or more robust.

    I wonder if there were somehow to use the tender shell as a sounding board? The increased area would significantly increase frequency response. Of course, that also could cause the tender to derail due to violent vibration. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
  16. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't ding Bmann's decision to do their latest stuff with a dual mode decoder. Satisfies both worlds of DC and DCC and my Bmann models run just fine on the DC which I have. All of the sound I have heard doesn't hold a candle to the real thing which I grew up with and was around a lot. I have an Athearn Challenger that in my opinion the sound is terrible and a huge irritation. Was a novelty for about an hour.
     
  17. Ike the BN Freak

    Ike the BN Freak TrainBoard Member

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    I have 2 locos out of over 160 with DCC/Sound. Only reason I got those is they are the Athearn F45s that a few months back were released as DC units with an MSRP of $99.95 and DCC/Sound of $139.95, and being the drop in decoder is $35, figured the $5 extra is worth it.
     
  18. Grantha

    Grantha TrainBoard Member

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    I find the sound decoders for N scale are getting better and better. I agree with those of you who are saying that the cost will go down as more manufacturers install the sound decoders in their new locomotives. Some of you like me can likely remember when a basic calculator was not affordable.
     
  19. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    The differences you are hearing are a result of the recording used by the decoder, not the speaker installation. The speaker in the VO-1000 is actually SMALLER than the one in the Berk. The VO-1000's speaker installation is an 8x12mm speaker in a sealed enclosure that is 6mm high; the Berk's speaker is a 13x18mm in an enclosure that is 8mm high. The difference is that the VO-1000 sound file is a recently-recorded file, while the steam file I use in the Berk is an older file originally created for the Version 3.5 ESU decoder and updated to work with the Select Micro. The sound just isn't as good as ESU's recently-recorded diesel files. When it comes to steam whistles, I think the Soundtraxx Tsunami beats everything out there, but I can't get the TSU to perform as I'd like on the motor control front, and it doesn't have good electronic chuff sync, so I adopted the ESU despite the lesser sound quality for steam. The upside is that ESU's sound files are downloadable, so I'm hoping that one day Matt Hermann from ESU will do a new recording of NKP 765 in Ft. Wayne and then I'll be able to update my sound files with a new Berk-specific recording. He's expressed some interest in doing this, but right now he's busy recording every last running diesel in the US . . . he recently tracked down an FM switcher at a museum somewhere in upstate NY so he could record the FM's opposed-piston 6 cylinder for a new sound file!

    John C.
     
  20. montanan

    montanan TrainBoard Member

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    I think is is just about the same thing in HO scale. I am a DC operator and have no plans to convert to DCC because I am a lone operator, plus my layout is a switching layout and I rarely run more than one locomotive at a time. My son gave me a little Bachmann 2-6-0 with DCC and sound. He doesn't have a clue what DCC is but knows that I prefer smaller steam locomotives. It operates just fine on DC. Here's a video of it pulling a passenger train. It is a wimp and can only handle 4 freight cars on my 2 % grade. The whistle and bell functions are apparently pre programmed as it sounds the proper signals when starting either in forward or reverse and when stopping. The bell will automatically come on at low speeds and then turn off as the speed increases.



    At the point where I am now with my layout, I think I have enough (??) locomotives. I have been trying to find certain locomotives recently and have found out that everything I was interested in was ONLY available with DCC or DCC w/ sound. I came across a little Bachmann S-4 switcher (I am a sucker for anything decorated for the Milwaukee Road) and couldn't find one that was DC only. The same was true when I was trying to find a heavy Mike in HO scale. I ran across some brass versions whice were on the pricey side and then would need a custom paint job when I came across a modeler on another forum who sold me a BLI heavy Mike for $100. This was a no brainer. This locomotive is a dual mode and does have sound. Again, it operates fine on DC, but for me, I really can do without the sound. A a while, it can get annoying, but my little grand son sure get a hoot out of them.
     

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