So has anybody done a side by side comparison of the running abilities of the MTL F7 AB vs the AZL F3 AB? They both look pretty good to me and both will probably come in roadnames I want like UP and CB&Q. I know other modelers out there would like some info or opinions. I run DC not DCC but compare those also if you know. Thanks Terl
I haven't tried the F3s yet but I did get an AZL E8 last week and gave it a good workout in DC mode before I swapped circuit boards to convert it to DCC. I ran great, far better than any of my MTL F7s. The thing you must remember about the MTL F7 is that the design is about 30 years old. They have 2 advantages, the MTL couplers work better than any others and they have been around so long you can find them in a lot of road names. As for converting the MTL F7 to DCC, forget it. That does not mean I don't like MTL locos, I have one of their GP9s and I love it, it's just the F7s.
Their are several write-ups on milling out the frame half's and putting TCS's Z2 decoder in the MTL F7's. It's not all that hard I've done several of them. You just have to take your time and measure twice and fill / mill off a little at a time till it fit's As for the comparison I haven't compared them side by side but I have ran both at shows. I personally prefer the AZL Units New out of the box they ran Smoother, Quieter, and had less derailments than their MTL counterparts. However with a few tweaks and a little fine tuning the MTL units ran just fine. Their was a noticeable improvement in performance in the MTL units after I installed the Z2 decoders but I can't say if that was a result of the decoder or additional fine tuning I did when installing the decoder or a combination of everything I did put together. In any case I intend to keep using my MTL units and supplement my fleet with AZL's F units once my preferred road is released. I can't speak on the performance of AZL's units after DCCing as I haven't installed decoders in any of mine yet. David
Rob, Do you have the ATSF AZL version available to shoot with the MTL? Black, glossy or mat always hides all the juicy details. The silver and red in the ATSF color scheme will make the details pop. Thanks, -Jon
Hi Jon, I shot a few quick photos of the ATSF on my iPhone, so the photography is not the best, but it should give you some idea of the level of detal on the AZL F units. I don't have an MTL handy for comparison, but I think more people are familiar with the MTL model as it has been around for quite some time. Best, -Rob(A) AZL
Thanks Rob. No need for the comparison shot, these speak a 1000 words! AZL did a really nice job. Thanks, -Jon
Actually the F3 shows how injection molding has improved over time. There is a 30 year time span inbetween the MTL F7 and AZL F3. Compare Märklin's br89 and br64 and you see a similar improvement.
The MTL F7 is the Volkswagen Beetle of American Z scale locomotives. Produced in mass quantities, it is cheap, reliable and easily repairable. It runs without delicate electronics. It sounds like a coffee grinder, (cool, free sound!) It is built like good russian tank, crude, but terrifyingly effective. You can field strip a MTL F7, clean the carpet fibers and pet hairs out of the trucks/gears in seconds. You can replace ANY motor/gear part of this die-hard diesel with a simple phone call/email to MTL in Oregon. You can buy Teeter totter wipers from third party manufacturers to improve it's already impressive electrical contact with the rails. It has NO traction tires to wear out and replace, it can pull a hundred car train without them. Bust a coupler? swap a factory replacement truck frame with new coupler on it for $5/truck in seconds, only two screws on the bottom to changeout the truck frame. $5 too expensive? replace the coupler itself with only a screwdriver, and patience. Need to pull a Heidi-land consist? Swap out one truck with a factory-made Marklin Z coupler truck frame and run in both worlds, again, a one-minute swap out. Open frame motor, like a DC version of an old school Lionel Pullmor motor; just add brush springs and brushes ad infinitum to keep it running forever. The F7 chassis is the prime mover for many a custom third party kit like Shays and other esoteric locs. Adaptive to new tech: dress it up with a decoder and run it with your ipad. Throw it in the US Mail or throw it against the wall, you won't need to reseat any pcb boards to get it to run, it ain't got no stinkin PCB boards. Just the heart of a lion and the lifespan of a redwood tree.
Sumgai, that is an awesome testimony about the MTL F7! Very cool commentary. Makes me want to go buy one, even though it is terribly out of era for me. Kudos to MTL for putting together such a serviceable workhorse.
... also from pricing and shell detail, the MTL F7 is comparable to the AZL GP38-2. Both are ideal products for people to give Z-scale a try and develop detailing skills. /Frank
I definitely agree about the AZL GP38-2. Mine never ceases to amaze me. Last night I was pulling an 18-car train with it. Granted, level track but still I find that very impressive for a z-scale locomotive. But the bigger "win" was the fact that I was able to pull 7 cars up a 1.6% grade without it really even breaking a sweat. (and actually it was a little bit more than 1.6% but I know it was at least that) I initially intended to leave grades out of the equation, but as my layout developed it became clear that having one grade down to an industrial park area would really add some character to the design so I decided to try it. It really only will ever need to pull 5 or 6 cars at a time, so it looks like this is gonna work which is very exciting news.
I just received my B&O F3 A-B set yesterday. After some testing (running DC) I discovered the B unit works better than the A unit. When running through my tunnel the A always hesitates at one spot, the B does not. There is probably some gunk on the track at that spot, I have not open up the tunnel to clean it off yet. The fact that only the A unit has the problem would lead me to conclude that only one of the trucks on the A unit is picking up power. The other disappointment with the A unit is the headlight is way too dim. I modified some of my old F7s with my own design dual LED board and it's like the difference between night and day. I haven't opened the F3 up yet to see if my board will fit, that will be the next step. I'll see if I can find some photos of my modified F7s on the weekend.
Speaking of running ability differences, maybe your units need some break-in before giving all what they have in their guts... About my question above (are AZL units cabs "dressed" inside), any comment here? Dom
Remember that 20% variation is typical in the manufacturing process. I would be very surprised to find two units that run exactly the same. Regarding the headlight, I don't have an F3 myself yet. But looking at a unit running at NTS, it's LED was misaligned with the shell. You may just need to make a mechanical adjustment. Of course, IMHO, some headlights in are too bright. I want mine to cast a shadow only about 2-3 inches ahead. Mark
