Alco High Adhesion Trucks

Discussion in 'N Scale' started by oldrk, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. oldrk

    oldrk TrainBoard Supporter

    Did any N scale company make the Alco high adhesion truck??

    [​IMG]
     
  2. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

    Didn't ConCor sell the C-636's back in the 70s? Would those have them? (granted, they would probably have pizza cutter flanges, but the sideframes might be usable)
     
  3. oldrk

    oldrk TrainBoard Supporter

    NJ you are right on the money. I have one of those and it does have the high adhesion truck. Obviously the cant be swapped out. And the axle spacing is different. On the standard truck the three axles are spaced differently where as the the high adhesion truck axles are spaced the same. I wonder if a six axle sd50 or 60 axle would fit in the C630? Could swap out and sand down the side frames and glue the old ConCor frames on. I wonder.....
     
  4. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

    "Didn't ConCor sell the C-636's back in the 70s? Would those have them?"

    One of the problems in trying to use the Concor truck sideframes is that the truck itself was too short. There is some info on building the correct length of truck over on the N-scale Kitbashing list from the Concor truck, which is worth taking a look at!!! Its in, I think, the Photos section which likely will require a person to join if they are not already a member (don't get me started on Yahoo! Groups) but it is some really good info...
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nscalekitbashing
     
  5. Steve 4 Painting

    Steve 4 Painting TrainBoard Member

    Briggs Models ( http://www.briggsmodels.com ) offers a Dofasco Truck kit for the ALCo and this is a symmetrical truck and together with parts of the old ConCor/Roco trucks it should be possible to build something...

    ...the ones on the yahoo group are built based on a Kato SD40 truck and parts from the ConCor/Roco model.

    Briggs Models Dofasco Trucks
    [​IMG]
    (yes, close up pictures are brutal - something is missing) ;)

    the kits are complete new trucks including the gear housing, all you need from the original Atlas trucks are the gears and the wheels...
    [​IMG]
    (truck sideframes included but not shown in this picture)
     
  6. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

    Dofasco trucks were used in Canada and possibly on some Mexican M-series locomotives as well. They were used because of their shorter wheel base.
     
  7. Robbman

    Robbman TrainBoard Member

    Some six-axle truck dimensions...

    -------------------- wb ---------- as1 -------- as2
    -
    Alco Hi-Ad --------- 13' 7" ----- 6' 7.375" -- 6' 11.625"

    Alco Tri-Mount ----- 12' 6" ----- 5' 7" ------ 6' 11"
    -
    FM Tri-Mount ------- 13" -------- 5' 9" ------ 7' 3"

    GE Tri-Mount ------- 13" ------- 5' 9" ------ 7' 3"

    EMD Flexicoil ------ 13' 7" ----- 6' 9.5" ---- 6' 9.5"

    EMD HT-C ----------- 13' 7.375" - 6' 6.375" -- 7' 1"

    GE Adirondack/GSC -- 13' 7" ----- 6' 7.5" ---- 6' 11.5"

    Dofasco ------------ 11' 2" ----- 5' 7" ------ 5' 7"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2008
  8. M&E Alco

    M&E Alco TrainBoard Member

    Hi
    The easiest way to make an acceptable Hi-Ad is to use an existing Flexicoil truck with some of the details filed down then add the centre part of the Con-Cor frame. See below:
    [​IMG]
    I'm sure some of you have seen this before, but for those who may be new, here is the finished item.
    [​IMG]

    Cheers
    Steve
    Modelling NJ in NZ
     
  9. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    Excellent idea! :thumbs_up: Very simple to do.
     
  10. oldrk

    oldrk TrainBoard Supporter

    I see this in my future. Stay tuned!! Oh, and what existing Flexicoil truck can be used in the C630?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2008
  11. M&E Alco

    M&E Alco TrainBoard Member

    Hi Oldrk
    As the Con-Cor model was far too short I stretched it using C-424 parts (would use C-630 if I did another) and made it fit on a Kato SD-40 chassis. I think it was the best compromise available at the time. It was then very easy to modify the trucks.
    Pic below shows the mix of parts. Black Con-Cor, grey for Life-Like.
    [​IMG]
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  12. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

    I was hoping, Steve, that you would see this post. I still think it is a great model!!! Have you done anything recently???
     
  13. M&E Alco

    M&E Alco TrainBoard Member

    Time has been against me over recent years, but I have a couple of projects slowing evolving. My Rayonier Baldwin S-12 is ready for final paint and decals. I have an NYS&W E-8u ready for final grabs to go on, it's on my Rail Images page.

    The latest thing I've been doing is working on plans for both a C-430 (NYC version for the M&E) and a modified CP Rail M-636. The C-430 may require 2 C-630 shells due to the changes round the intercooler radiator section, and it will get a C-424 hood section for the dynamic brakes. The M-636 looks fairly straight forward until you start looking at what's needed. I have all the bits except the DoFaSCo trucks, but the hoods are very different from the C-630. My technique for seeing what to do involves downloaded C-630 and M-636 plans. I simple copy the C-630 components, crop and paste them together with other bits till they are close to the M-636. I use PowerPoint as my drawing tool, but there are probably better programs out there. I'll try and find the time to post my M-636 plans so you can see what I mean. Alternatively, e-mail me off list and I'll send them to you in Powerpoint so you can have a play. I find the concept very useful.

    Cheers
    Steve
    Still only 1 Alco in NZ.
     
  14. GNFA310

    GNFA310 TrainBoard Supporter

    If making the Hi-ad ALCO truck is so "simple" then what is Atlas' problem with producing C636's?? Other than Mr. Graf doesn't think they will sell because "too few roads actually owned any; and making the hi-ad trucks would be too cost prohibitive." Or words to that affect at a past train show in Cincinnati!!

    I know this because I had asked him about C636's ... :tb-wacky:

     
  15. Robbman

    Robbman TrainBoard Member

    A C636 is basically an entirely new locomotive from a C628/630, that's the 'problem'...
     
  16. GNFA310

    GNFA310 TrainBoard Supporter

    Yes, I know ... SP&S had 10 of the original 34 built. Pennsy had 15; IC had 6; and 3 were ALCO Demos. But the C628/630 was "an entirely new locomotive" until Atlas decided to make them; so I hardly think the loco type to be a 'problem' ... not even with the hi-adhesion trucks.

    In addition MLW of Canada produced the M636 variant of the C636 on Dofasco trucks for CPR and CNR. Later some C636's were even in CONRAIL paint (inherited from PC). Later still, Delaware-Lackawana had one C636 and NYSW (aka SusieQ) had two C636s .. though in actuality one of them was a MLW M636. So 'insufficient roadnames' is also hardly valid. Heck .. make it a "Limited Edition" and make a lot of diesel modelers really happy!! :tb-cool:
     
  17. Robbman

    Robbman TrainBoard Member

    It's an entirely different locomotive from the C628/630. The associated costs to do both 628 and 630 molds with inserts was factored over a larger run base. There was no logistical way to do the C636 shell alongside the 628/630 shells, and it requires not only new truck sideframes, but new truck towers, etc... i.e, it's an entirely new locomotive.

    You've got at most two runs on a C636, with 4-5 schemes per run...

    Factor in tooling cost, then per unit cost, then distributor costs (which can be some 40-60 percent of MSRP), and you can see why...
     
  18. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

    "Yes, I know ... SP&S had 10 of the original 34 built. Pennsy had 15; IC had 6; and 3 were ALCO Demos."

    Heck, a better model to do would be the RS32/RS36, which sold better and was eventually used by shortlines. A couple of Class II lines bought them new, a number of others bought then as they were dispersed.
     
  19. GNFA310

    GNFA310 TrainBoard Supporter

    Yep, even that one would be nice ... :tb-biggrin:

    Looks like a C636 will likely not be available again .. except for those Con Cor made, out of scale (too short for one thing) though they were. :tb-sad:
     
  20. oldrk

    oldrk TrainBoard Supporter

    cost too much


    Somebody call Concor. :tb-tongue:
     

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