Im going to transition the overanalyzing thread to one with a proper road name. Yep, My Lady's name is, in fact, Ellen. As I have stated in the overanalyzing thread she is helping with this endeavour in this RV. Sad thing is... Within a year... I hope and pray.... it will be torn down and useable parts will be used in a newer, much larger, layout in a home... God willing. and I'm ok with that. This... will be a test bed. Simply learning from our mistakes and corrections. Oh, I dont know, maybe carefully we could squeeze this through the door and add it in... who knows right now? Our plans are to move the rv to somewhere in the northwest before winter where I am searching for work. Anywho.... progress... we all love to see progress... I have the entire trackplan figured out... finally. 3 levels. Lil yard, old industry, ghetto part of town on ground level... to include a lake, park, red light mobile homes, and... ironically a decent city park at the lake... located by the elegant bridges of the elevated portions for the trains. Second level... passenger station, nice houses, lil lake that dumps into bigger lake below... richer part of town. Third level... the mining district. Gold and coal made the town... gold for the rich folk, coal for the rest. small lil yard up there too. The grade up to mines is about 2.5% so at ground level, there is a siding for mine owned and contracted pushers. Havent decided yet but either PA's or F3's... some other railroads cast away rustbuckets... bought cheap by the mines. They run... they push... and thats about the extent of maintenance. Goods arrive and depart this lil fictional part of colorado. though right now the livery consists of 1 emd fp45, 2 dd40ax, a challenger and a big boy, they keep adding as funds allow. The steamers are kept pristine as they take passengers up to Denver as excursions, or... for the "Old West Days" celebrations, they double head to the mining district for tours of the mines. Operation: This layout is to be controlled by the digitrax super chief 5 amp, duplex radio system. 2 cabs We are still debating on the turnout control... DCC? Or... the touch led method... hmmm....
Did you plan to put all three levels in the RV? That may be pushing it, although I will concede the point that I have not seen the RV, so there is not much that I can state. Considering it strictly from the point of building a pike and learning, you might want to keep it to one level. Build the first level, make and fix your mistakes, run the dickens out of it until you are certain that every bug is gone. By the time that you have done all of this on level one, you may be looking at a home. I did something similar on my fictitious railroad. I had an N-TRAK module that I decided would be the base of the pike. The common trackage had already passed a club' muster, so there was no problem, there. The private trackage was a switching layout, but even that had been gone over, worked over and had all the bugs removed. To be sure, the curves and turnouts are sharp, but I knew that going in to it. After all, what do you expect when you have only eighteen by forty eight inches with which to work. Due to sharp curves and turnouts, I knew that there would be restrictions on what could run there. I decided to put loop ends on the module to allow for continous runnning. There would be turnouts, to allow for more trackside businesses. The first ends had nine and three quarter curves. Not satisfactory, as they did not allow me to operate certain motive power. In addition, since the nine and three quarter curves allowed for smaller end sections, I did not think that they needed really solid construction. As the problems created by the nine and three quarter curves were those that jumped at me, I did not catch the latter problem. The next step was going to eleven inch curves. I decided to go with B-mann EZTRAK , as the turnouts had metal frogs that did not require gapping and I wanted to try the track-cum-roadbed. I picked the B-mann over the Kato due to B-mann track's North American tie spacing. I was getting the bugs ironed out when a problem that simply refused to be corrected came up: the B-mann #4 turnouts were causing derailments. I knew that it was the turnouts, as the equipment was not derailing on other turnouts. I tired substituting the PECO turnouts from the first end pieces, but what I had to do to adapt them to the B-mann track was causing all kinds of stalling due to intermittent loss of contact. Out went the B-mann and in came the Kato. It was at that time that I noticed that the somewhat less than solid construction of the end pieces was also causing stalling and derailments. This time, I did it properly. I went to thirteen and three quarter curves. Some of the Kato #4 turnouts were causing derailments, so I changed them to #6 and had to alter the tracks slightly to accomomdate them. Then began the long task of operating the trains, ironing out the bugs and addressing problems that developed. Yes, problems will develop. You can run trains over the same section of track for quite some time, using the same equipment and everything is fine. Suddenly, problems develop. The locomotive starts to stall, either frequently or every time. Derailments start to occur. Not everything will derail, nor will it always derail every time, but sometimes everything will derail every time. There is no consistency to any of this. Of course, the first thing that you think is that it is the equipment. Sometimes, it is. Sometimes, it ain't . For me, the problem has usually developed in the track. So you keep working until you correct the problem. This process usually takes some time. You want to make sure that everything is the best that it can be before moving on to the next part. If you discover an obvious flaw, fix it immediately, no matter what the fix requires. I have ripped out more than a few sectons of track to address a problem. It makes sure that the problem does not becpome a disaster. If you do not address what appears to be a problem a-borning, the trains may operate for now, but, at some point, the problem will become worse. If you notice that trains are running more roughly over a section of track than they used to, address the matter immediately. The situation will deteriorate. Please do not be discouraged by this. By all means, build th e pike. Start on the first level and take your time. Make sure that all of the track is properly laid from the start. That will keep problems to a minimum, but it will not eliminate them, entirely. Sometimes, the problem is not in your trackwork, but, as my experience demonstrated to me, it was in the manufacture of the track. Run many trains. Let them find the flaws and correct them. This may necessitate operating a Plywood and Pacific for a time, but it is better only to have to take out track, then to have to take out scenery before you can take out the track. Once you are sure of the track, add the scenery, then proceed to the next phase. I would go with the F-3s as pushers. The prototype PAs were passenger power. They had an idler axle in each truck which allowed for a smoother ride, but decreased tractive effort. To be sure, the LL plastic frame PAs are real stump pullers. The LL metal frame and Kato PAs pull well, also. The IM or Kato F-3s are good pullers and might be more realistic for use as pushers. There was a mine somewhere that used an F7B as a remote controlled switcher. I do not know if the mine is still working or if it still uses the B-unit. ( I think that it was an F7B, it might have been an F3B, I can not remember. I do know that it was an EMD B F-unit). I seem to recall that the mine bought the thing used, had it fixed up and it was satisfactory. Thus, you idea to use some beat up old F-units as pushers is not far fetched, at all.
Brokemoto, You have given some excellent advice here! I have been through nearly all the same challenges, enlarging radius, finding quality track, replacing foam board with plywood, supporting end loops properly, starting small etc. Two others that have helped me are: adding additional wire feeders, finding a good track cleaning system in a corrosive climate, now using either hand cleaning or the CMX car. My summary, in the small N scale, quality materials and construction count. Thanks, Tonkphilip
Some good advice here. I can add also to think about the depth of the layout and reach. Thirty inches is about the limit and when the level is higher even that may be too much. One should be able to carefully reach in to the back without damaging features on the front or being off balance. Not to mention the strain on the back as one ages. Naturally a good foundation is important and a good roadbed. And if something isn't working out, and usually there will be, don't be afraid to tear something out and redo it. Something I have done several times on my build thread.
That is great advice! and im on the same tracks. my laptop has been down for quite some time. I use my tab and phone for biz stuff. lol so, I used the trusty yardstick protractor method to figure out my curves. Cut the templates out of wood, layed the ground level roadbed from there. The layout is 80 inches by 42 inches wide. A bit of a challenge to get to the back of it. The rear two feet or so sit on the built in computer desk in the right side slide out. Living room has slideouts on both sides opening it up to a total of about15 feet wide by about 10 foot 6 inches long. The rear 3 feet or so are occupied by the big cat tree on one side, my border collie's bed on the other. So, plenty of room to move around and it doesn't block the tv lol Anyway. track roadbed is layed down. curve radius' are 18", 16 1/4", 15" on the ground level. I stuck with 15" min radius all levels. Ground level is painted with a base of dark brown. I have the feeder wires solderd to the rear sections of flex track. and I soldered the joiners of the three sections prior to pinning it down, and have the holes for the feeders drilled. As im looking at it, on my left long side. that is where a small yard, industry will be located. so on that side, I have a lot of wiring to do. I have 6 tortoise motors for the ground level stuff. I also have 3, digitrax ds 64's. as for the upper levels, for now its all snap relays. That is after the test runs are done on ground level though. as a career electronics tech. tonight made me long for my trusty variable soldering iron, which is packed in a box somewhere 70 miles away.... new and cheapish soldering irons frustrate me. That being said... on a personal note, there is one section that I, personally am not happy with... well, not a section, but a joint. Its very secure as far as my lil stress tests, but I'll be testing the crap out of it. I guess you could say its mobile as well. 2 end tables hold up the bulk of it. So, when I relocatefor work. I just move the lazy boy chairs into the galley hallway, and pull in the slides, walking the layout inboard. I'm unsure if I'll be moving solo, or if my Lady will come with. I guess in the end, it doesn't matter as I can't keep living unemployed. She's not too keen on living in this for 6 to 8 months. Before money is saved for a house proper. Me? Lol it's a roof, a kitchen, tv's and a king size bed... beats the hell out of submarine living in ways. Which I am very accustomed to... and.. beats the hell out of a tent. Or a car. I guess that's how I look at it. Hell, before my kidney took a dump. I had 8 aquariums in here. 110 gallon down to 30 gallons. Another hobby... But I digress... My locos thus far: 2 DD40AX 1 EMD FP45 1 Challenger on order 1 big boy on order All dcc with sound I have 1 kato f7 that is dcc ready and a micro trains battleship row set. ill convert them later. My pops was a ww2 navy vet. And my self being a submarine cold war, desert storm, op iraqi freedom guy... had to have it lol Well, thats the loco lineup. as far as rolling stock.... nice mix of kato and bachman mostly lol
For tonight. first 3 sections of track are being glued down, save for the ends which I left propped up a bit on their feeder wires. im soldering feeders onto the bottoms of each piece of flex towards the ends. as I mentioned earlier. I had to make things a bit easier on me by pre joining and soldering 3 flex track sections together. It goes around the ground level curve at the rear of the layout. but its in a canyon between two elevated sections. I didn't quite make that easy on me lol. any derails there ill have to move the dog off of her bed and get to them from that side. After searching the internetz I couldn't find any supplier that had code 80 peco turnouts. none in stock anyway. It took a trip to caboose hobbies in Denver to find code 55, curved turnouts. one of the guys there gave me some tips n tricks on making them fit nicely to the code 80 track, but hes got about 25 years experience, and a whole lot of layout builds on me. Question is... should I even try it???
How and where did what joint fail? Regarding the PECO 55/80 turnouts, I have had mostly problems with them. I have been unable to use them on mainline trackage satisfactorily. On certain industrial trackage, they have been acceptable. In fact, the rough ride might be prototypical, as some industrial trackage is pretty crummy as it is. I am surprised that you can not find the PECO code eighty turnouts on line. There is a guy who is a regular at Timonium, Maryland shows who has all kinds of them. He might not be there, this time, as this show is the smallest of the bunch, as it is in the smaller building. The Cow Palace has no air conditioning, so in June, they always do it in one of the smaller air conditioned buildings. They used to do it in both, but I guess that it did not work out. If the guy is there, I will get some web address/e-Mail information and send you a PM.
I should have posted a pic of it. far too many ties removed, located on a stressed portion of a curve. not only did it narrow the gauge slightly, it twisted a bit. So I fixed the issue. Funny enough I figured out how to make my turnouts somewhat flexy where I need them to be, so I'll see if that works. Sadly enough, all my turnouts are either electrofrog or atlas snap switched turnouts. no bother on ground level as I'm using tortoise motors... polarity issue solved there. second level I could get away with simply using longer wire with tortoise switches but that changes the throw geometry. Third level... no way around it.. snap switches. So cost wise I'm either looking at new turnouts or frog juicers. Top level loop down from the mine, im cheating, using a wye for more of a turnout as it were. Sort of.... ish..
And.... I believe the only thing more aggravating in this world... than trying to solder n gauge track and turnouts with a cheap soldering iron.... is probably trying to solder z gauge, track and turnouts.... with a cheap soldering iron.... just sayin... so off to the dcc thread I happily go...
Well, the layout is on hold for a bit. I did manage to get my programming track down on the very end of a siding. At the very least I can program my locos now! I'm going up to Portland and surrounding areas to both look for work, and vacation with my Lady and her family. Sadly, I just can't find work in my homestate so I need to open the old apperature and look elsewhere. I did, howevevr apply for a bnsf job up in klamath falls.. though I've heard railroad jobs are next to impossible to get into unless you know about 20 people that a already work for them lol. But... I'll stay positive about it and hope and pray! I really can't do a whole lot more until I can afford more switches and a proper soldering station. I'm simply not going to risk crap soldering with a cheap iron. I guess I'm a bit OCD that way. I have about 80 percent of the ground level track soldered and glued down. my prelim testing with a finicky boxcar has proven positive so far, so I may hook up those jumpers to the track bus and test what I have. Lot's to do prior to departure on friday. new windshield for the hotrod... (thanks cdot.. glad to see in 31 years of driving you still choose to "sand" the snowy roads with pinecones, rocks and boulders...) and swapping the winter tires for the summer tires... taking a look at where I'm boarding Miss Mae West, my border collie.. Teaching a friend the kitty feeding and box cleaning routine... Thanks Claire! Shout out to Claire for taking care of them for me... And other general trip preps.. Man, I hope and pray a job comes through... I really do not want to live in a RV for the rest of my life... But by the same token.... I can't gripe too much.... quite a few here in the rv park living under the same circumstances. And quite a few... living out of tents... or cars... then there are those whom now have far less... I'm blessed it's big, warm... can cook food and watch the sat tv... I guess the lil gripe ends there. Oh... and I am blessed I can afford this lil layout. out of necessity, I did cancel my orders for the big boy and challenger. I'll get to those in august. Fleabay has been pretty kind to me thus far though. A few single buildings, plus a big box of buildings for 20 bucks, sets me up well on the scenery end of things. LED's with fixed resistors, street lamps, lighted vehicles etc... I call that a great start on a budget. Plus three dcc and sound locos. about 25, 30 rolling stock.. and 2 dcc systems. the digitrax super chief duplex, and a beginner nce. nce ill use for for lighting. It was dirt cheap, so I'll put it to use. As far as turnouts... I'll get some more insulfrogs. But mixed in with my electrofrogs... I'll take the advice of many and simply isolate the rails necessary, add jumpers, hook up to my tortoises, call it good. I think I'll be much happier with things even if I'm simply running trains on the ground level, as I start on level 2 then 3.
I can give you a little hope on that... a friend of mine did not know anyone, is old enough to qualify for an AARP card and did recently land a job with one of the East Coast Class 1's. (The one with the horse.) It was a long, arduous process... I didn't keep score but I think it took about five months from first application to hiring decision. And now, back to the N Scale railroad, already in progress...
Thanks for the encouragement George! Last weekend i said to heck with it. I wired up the tracks i have laid down and wired. Got the dcc system and throttle up and running and ran trains over what i have lol
Back from vacation, kitties decided the rolling stock were fun to tip over, layout is a mess, new soldering station should be here tomorrow,... life will be good!
It truly is a sad day when a 4.5 inch section of track stands between you, and a great test session... I guess if I were one whom used twitter I'd post- #gettingmyhineykickedbytoytraintrack....
