Great Lakes Bulk Carrier Sneak Preview

Discussion in 'Z Scale' started by Pete Nolan, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    I'm working on a Great Lakes Bulk Carrier in Z scale. It's the SeaWay max 730 feet long by 75 feet beam--huge even for Z scale at about 40 inches long. The size might be apparent by the proverbial dime on the deck about amidship. Still lots of development to go, but notice that it features open holds. Of course, that means a lot of work for the coamings around the hatches.

    [​IMG]

    I need some indication of interest before I put this into production. I'm pretty sure that lack of demand for something this size will lead to it being an "on commission only" model.
     
  2. Garth-H

    Garth-H TrainBoard Supporter

    except for the bow it lookes great. Laker bows are short and quite blunt to my eye this one is too long and pointee

    3 hatch covers to a hold is what I see and is consistent with the 750 ft ships I know on the lakes
     
  3. Loren

    Loren TrainBoard Supporter

    Pete, you are doing a fine job on that ship model. I would tend to agree with Garth on the bow being a bit pointed, but it is after all your football and you can play the game any old way you like. Just don't name her Edmund Fitzgerald.... :eek:)

    Not too many Z scalers will have any scenes where that would fit in, but who knows you may find a market somewhere you aren't expecting.

    Looking forward to seeing progress photos. Keep up the good work.
     
  4. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    I agree the bow is too pointy. I modified an existing bow, and didn't make it blunt enough. It looked great until I photographed it. That's what prototypes are for. I should probably just copy the stern.
     
  5. pmx

    pmx TrainBoard Member

    Referring back to the links in the other container thread, the bow may be a bit long but definitely needs to remain pointed for this style of ships. I like the looks, bow aside, and the open holds are a very nice addition that will allow an "action" seen to be created.

    Not sure of the demand will warrant production, but I will say I'm interested.

    ~Paul E.
     
  6. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    I'll break out the razor saw tomorrow, and try a new bow. That will allow the pilot house to be moved forward, leaving a bit of space for an optional self-unloader. I've read that the unloaders were often added later, as in the case of the Algomarine--and the pilot house is modeled loosely after that ship, and will be modeled more closely on the second attempt. (Why were the pilot houses so large on these ships? They are so large I'm going to have to add interior details.)

    I think 18 hatches with six holds is fairly prototypical. I've actually counted hatches on a number of 730' ships and come up with 14, 16 or 18. I think some ships had only three holds, but that might make the model hull a little flimsy (although you could probably use the first hull as a cricket bat). BTW, the distance between the outer hull and the hold walls (the inner hull in this case) is pretty small and as prototypical as I could achieve.

    I don't see much of a market on Z scale railroads. At 40" long, these might find a "tabletop display" market. Building a full hull model rather than a waterline model is just a bit more difficult. I will say that these are now approaching museum quality in fit and finish as I get better at the digital cutting technologies.
     
  7. DPSTRIPE

    DPSTRIPE TrainBoard Supporter

    That's part of the reason that I bought the drawings for the Calcite for my layout plans. At 436' long by about 60' wide, it works out to be a good size for a layout. And, with the 60' beam, it could realistically be stretched to over 600'. There were also some very compact lakers that were only about 260' long by 43' wide that were built to use the locks on the St.Lawrence river (pre-seaway). Some of these were still on the lakes into the 80s.

    Dan S.
     
  8. Garth-H

    Garth-H TrainBoard Supporter

    I would not move the pilot house, If you add self unloading it is set back into the the rear of the deck house and the day cabin for guests and the galley and dinning room are relocated within the accommodation block. The Lakers without self unloader have a day cabin for guests of the owners behind the wheel house and below that the owners and guest cabins. The wheel house is full width as entering the locks and coming alongside there is a helm position with steering levers, thruster controls and engine controls, and rudder angle indicator at each wing but no wheel, on each bridge wing. The center steering pedestal with wheel for helmsman is located in center of wheel house with autopilot and gyro compass and magnetic compass, rudder angle indicator. just forward of this is a console with radar usually 2, depth sounder, radios, log engine controls gyro repeater, large rudder angle indicator overhear visible from any position in the wheel house and steering levers non follow-up and full follow-up and is used by the officer on watch and master or captain to control the ship when there is no helmsman present. usually the masters or captains chair is here as well if fitted. Usually to the right of the helmsman's position is the navigation table. with radar repeaters,depth sounder repeaters and log, satellite radio weather fax, gyro compass repeater, radios and night curtains to block white light from affecting vision of those on duty in wheel house. There are two generic terms used to describe the lakers, flat back and self unloaders, flat backs have to be unloaded by shore side cranes, while self unloaders can discharge their cargo themselves. One of the shortest trips on the lakes for a self unloader is picking up coal from Conneaut Ohio 8 hours to load 4 hours across Lake Erie to Nanticoke Ontario Generating station to unload 8 hours and back 4 hours across the lake to conneaut Ohio to reload and they do this from April when the ice is out to Christmas when the ports ice up. Officers work month on and month off and rest of the crew 2 months on and a month off. During winter layout all major maintenance is done and there is a 2 man watch crew inboard when no work is being done. Any major break downs during the shipping season and repair crews are brought on board and the work is carried out while the ship continues to sail, unless it is main engines and the work can not be done under way, or the vessel has to go into dry dock for repairs.
     
  9. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    A little ship surgery--almost like the real thing--grafted a more correct bow onto the laker. The old pointy bow (with the bloody nose) is in the center.

    [​IMG]

    I have to say this was a lot of fun.

    I also got the hatch coamings on, and the hatch covers assembled and painted (the covers are still in the paint shop):

    [​IMG]

    I need to smooth out the hull transitions, and figure out the poop deck structures. I gained one hatch cover with the bow transplant, right behind the pilothouse, and that one can't be opened, as it reinforces the splice. So my ship will have 19 hatches. Production ships will have 18 hatches.

    Garth, thank you so much for your information! It will help me as I transform this from a prototype into a real model.
     
  10. Garth-H

    Garth-H TrainBoard Supporter

    got to hand it to you looks perfect.
     
  11. JoeS

    JoeS TrainBoard Member

    That is going to look so massive! You are going to need a large harbor. Well done :D
     
  12. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    Actually, my home layout is N scale, and it does have a harbor large enough for a N scale version, although I'll have to build a dock scene. The Z scale hull can also work as a 530' N scale hull. There were many lakers of about that size. The superstructure would have to be reworked for N scale, but that's not too difficult.
     
  13. pmx

    pmx TrainBoard Member

    Looking spectacular. Guess, I'm going to need to start looking to make 4 plus feet of Z dock...
     
  14. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    Here's a mockup of the stern accommodations. These aren't photographed as much as the bows, but I found them to be more generic than most ships.

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure of the well between the C-shaped two-story house and the one story stack house. Also, none of the hull seams nor bondo will be on the production versions, as the hull sides will be one piece.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Loren

    Loren TrainBoard Supporter

    Wow Pete, you have some building talent there. Looking pretty good from this angle.
     
  16. DPSTRIPE

    DPSTRIPE TrainBoard Supporter

    Looks great, Pete. I have to agree with Loren. I just can't believe how quickly you built this thing up. Quite impressive.
    Dan S.
     
  17. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

    Thanks! I'm getting pretty good with drawing parts for the digital cutter.
     
  18. traius

    traius TrainBoard Member

    The well between the funnel and the superstructure could probably be prototypical - I have seen something like that before, albeit not that wide though, on old banana/reefer boats.

    Petter
     
  19. Garth-H

    Garth-H TrainBoard Supporter

    Pete you are going great guns, only comment I can make it this rear accommodation block is too high for a boat with forward bridge and accommodation block. they are usually only one deck tall at the stern. those that were taller were the steam power boats as there was a big coal hopper above the accommodation block. This deck house would be just about right for aft bridge and accommodation block with bridge wing set out over the main deck so captain can look down along the side of the ship. On all Lakers that travel the canals the wings of the bridge extend to the full width of the ship. some are done as open bridge wings so you have to step outside the wheel house, but they all need to see down the side of the ship when entering canal locks and it helps when berthing as well. Another details you might want to consider on Lakers is they do not use stevedores to tie up the ship on the approach wall to a lock while waiting their turn in the canal now days so they have to swing crew members out on a derrick arm out over the side to lower them to the dock to tie up the ship In the locks the lock master and his crew tie up the ships unless there are auto line tenders not installed on the lock walls, then the crew does the tie up. One set is usually located at forward end of hatch one and the second at the aft end of the lasts hatch cover. they swing out 15 feet putting crew member safely onto the dock wall away from the side of the ship. There is also a boarding ladder located on a hoist from center of the accommodation block through the side gunnel on rollers which is lowered to the dock for retrieving crew from dock side after berthing or releasing the lines so the ship can get under way. Then the standard accommodation boarding ladder that folds up on deck when not in use but in use is folded out over the side of the ship and and lowered to the dock to provide steps to climb to the deck so it is used to board pilots under way and when tied up alongside.
     
  20. pmx

    pmx TrainBoard Member

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