My next project is planned to be a very different one from my current one, and I need some help. In a nutshell I am currently modeling in N scale, but planning to move to HO soon. And the plan is to make a dual gauge HO/HOn30 proto-freelance layout based on American logging operation - most likely Adirondacks. Space is limited (isn't it always!), so I will definitely go sectional, and possibly even modular, with HOn30 piece plugged in to the mainline in a dual gauge junction. The primary reason for me to move into a bigger scale is to gain that extra weight and reliability compared to N scale, and of course leverage much more options of modeling. Now HOn30 is very similar to N - being able to model in a same area as N while taking the advantages of detailing in a bigger scale. On the other hand the challenges are similar too, if not more - lack of readily available locos and rolling stock and less reliability compared to the standard gauge counter part of the same scale. This is where I need help. Can you guys give me some constructive tips, references and material so that my first experience with HOn30 is not a frustrating one First difficult question is loco. I need locos suitable for American logging, but I need a loco that is as heavy as possible within it's limits - something like a BEMO HOe loco. Is there any product like that in the market? I would like to move them slow without stalling, just like the prototype. A lot of people recommended me Minitrains - no Shays available but can definitely look for a F&C and/or a Forney - both seem to be out of stock in most of the shops now, but whenever I get it, is it worth spending money for? Can these locos take a straight 5% grade with 4-5 cars? What are the customization option to make them heavier? What are the options of converting N scale locos into a Shay or a Forney? I haven Atlas V1000 and a Kato NW2 at my disposal - either of them any good for a conversion? Has anyone done this before? Finally, the biggest attraction for me to look at this theme is the HO/HOn30 dual gauge track at the junction where the logging line meets the mains. The only full range products I could find are the Tillig tracks. Now anything that I should keep in mind - are there any known issues of these dual gauge track arrangements? Seems some of the turnouts have insul-frog - is that an issue for slow speed running? Are they DCC friendly? I think I will have more questions soon, but for now, if I can figure out the above points, I think I will be able to take a solid decision whether to take that route, or steer clear and stay with just standard gauge HO. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Kaustav
Kaustav- I have worked on and off for some years in HOn30. On again since about 2007... (Yes. I am still active in N scale! ) As for steam, There are a few out there. There was a Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes imported a few years back, by Train & Trooper in Maine. T&T has since closed their doors. I would love to own one, but money is too tight. There have been others, brass, kits and assembled such as Joe Works, Flying Zoo. Much of the rest will be custom work, based upon N scale chassis. The MinitrainS Forney has not as yet hit hobby shop shelves. Their F&C loco sold very well, so might be a bit of effort to find. Grades as you suggest, with MinitrainS? Well, I'd doubt it. Not with US style rolling stock. Perhaps someone has tried and might know for certain. It may be possible, but I have doubts. Conversions? There have been some kits offered. Resin by such as Railway Recollections. Brass from Toma in Japan. Currently available, you would need to investigate. Also, there are a fair number of offerings coming via people using Shapeways. I can't speak as to Tillig track. I know there are folks who really like it. Dual gauge? I know the Hayden and Frary efforts had some small portions. The pure HO portion I think was dummy only.
Thanks Ken - that helps a lot. I have started doing research on Brass locos, Toma etc.and as you said the cost is definitely a deterrent. Also, a brass loco doesn't mean that it will be a good runner (I have friends who have pretty bad experience with Brass loco) especially in smaller scales. Second, getting the loco is just the start - then there is DCC conversion etc. The European scenario is definitely much better (HOe) as I have a friend here in India who buys them and converts them to Indian prototype (The British rail heritage in the country helps) - locos like Bemo are top quality ones and weighs as much as a standard gauge HO - runs very well too. But those locos will not look right in an all American logging set-up. Here is the Tillig dual gauge offering - looks very interesting indeed (in fact I decided to consider this theme seriously after I discovered this)! The thing is, I wanted to do a logging layout as long as I can remember, but my biggest focus now is reliability, realism (sound, smoke etc.) and details. So I want to know if I can achieve these goals with HOn30 before I start investing serious money. Otherwise, I will look at HOn3 as an alternative. Thanks as always for all the great suggestions.
I hope you do look at HOn30. I love the size for it's the possible whimsical nature. You can definitely achieve good operation. Many a fine critter has been built atop an N scale mechanism. It is a bit of a scratch builder/ kit building scale, but a lot of fun. For HOn3, you will use a lot more space, and probably spend a fair amount more on at least the locomotives.
Thanks Ken - yes, the easy adaptability to N scale and less space requirement is something that made me look at HOn30 rather than HOn3. I am doing some research, and there are some fabulous stuff I discovered in Shapeways.com - and coincidentally found a designer in India who has made some fabulous HOn30 stuff. I think I will find what I need, but it's just not going to be ready made - but that's OK, I enjoy building things!
A possibility for heavy locomotive. This was my very first HOn30 locomotive, a Big City Hobbies 0-4-0 saddle tanker (supposedly made by Minitrains). I know it make 6" radius curves (tested, but I don't use them). Just about every cubic nanometer inside that plastic boiler/tank is either motor or cast metal, so it will pull the paint off the bulkhead. It suffers from the usual 4-coupler locomotive problem in that it has only four wheels picking up current and the motor does not have a flywheel. I have only run it on test track using Kato unitrack, and I have no issues with stalling, but if you have insulated frog turnouts or crossing diamonds you might. It should not be too difficult to add a pair of track wipers under the cab. The one that has been "altered" ran so well, I thought I would get a second ... BCH still has them in stock last time a checked a few weeks ago for about $90 American. But the new one (the "Before" in the before-and-after picture) runs like crap. I might put the boiler/tank on a newer Life-like 0-6-0 chasis. Not usually thought of as a logging loco, but this light Mogul was converted from a MDC tender-drive 2-6-0. It will make 8-3/4" curves and it's VERY smooth runner and is a good puller. The MDC/Athearn 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 do show up on The 'Bay pretty regularly and they can be had for not a whole lot of $$ Respectfully, Bob S.
Ken, Short answer: No. If you ever followed what I did in N scale you'll understand what I did with the tender drive system. For cosmetics used mostly Myner Models from Shapeways. More later ..... Respectfully, Bob S.
The motor has been transplanted onto the chassis of an old Bachmann tender; the tender trucks are Kato caboose. Trucks are hardwired to the motor. The stack, domes, cab and tender body are from Shapeways. Respectfully, Bob S.
By the looks of that photo, you should have very reliable power pickup. It's been a while since I last browsed Shapeways. Maybe six weeks. I should look and see what's new, just for fun.
One thing going for a logging layout in N is using the Micro-Trains N scale log cars. Al Sandrini uses them on his Dixie Creek railway and they look good. They did regular loads and 1 pickle load if I remember correctly. There's a few on fleabay right now..
The short car was a 30 footer in N, the longer car a 40 footer in N. There was also disconnect trucks as well. M-T shows the disconnects on their website in single pairs and 10 packs as still available. 113-00-000 is the 40 foot car, 113-00-500 the 30 foot car and 113-00-700 the disconnects with loads. 003 02 171 is the single pair of disconnects, 003 10 171 the 10 pack and they are listed as in stock.
I have two of the F&C 0-4-0 locomotives. One of them has undergone the Toma Model Works Baldwin conversion. I tested them on a grade this evening. The stock F&C engine will slip a little pulling 2 passenger cars up a 5% grade, but can make it. At 3% it can get 4 passenger cars up the hill. The one with the Toma conversion is heavier, and can pull 3 passenger cars up a 5% grade without slipping, but at 4 cars it starts to slip. The F&C loco is 71.62 grams and the Toma Baldwin is 91.71 grams (including the tender). Both seem to do a little better pushing. I've been very impressed with how well the Minitrains engines run. They perform much better than a 4 wheel power pick-up engine should. Kato F unit good. A steep logging railroad using these rod engines may be reasonable, but I wouldn't go above a 3% grade through curves. You will have problems getting long trains up hill, just like the real ones. One option is to double head. Many railroads will break up a train, and only move a few cars a time up the steepest sections. Marsh Creek Miniatures also sells an HOn30 18' skeleton log car kit (cast in resin) that uses MTL trucks and couplers.
Thinking about the grades mentioned makes me wonder if that's really something worthwhile doing. I know some logging lines did that, but any line that was going to stay in place for awhile would have a lessor grade I would think. And the upkeep on the line and equipment would be tough. On a model layout I would rather use a hidden helix for grade changes and make life easier on the lokies. Since were working with small engines and N gauge track, a tight helix would be fairly easy to make and install. This would also let a larger train run. While it may be prototype, only lugging 2-5 cars at a time gets old.
