US Signals

HoboTim May 11, 2007

  1. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    US Signals in Z scale!

    Is it possible? The answer is yes! Very Much So!!!

    When I say Yes, I am not just stating static signals that have paint for the signal colors. I am stating fully operational signals. Be it the single light Target Signal or the 3 light Signal, they can both be made for Z scale Operations.

    Applications!!!

    Modules or Layouts!!! Either can be accommodated with electronics to amaze not only the Train enthusiast, but also yourselves!!!

    One Saturday I found the following link!

    http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html

    I must have searched every page within this site. Before I knew it, it was getting dark outside. Wow!!! I spent many an hour viewing and studying the signal options available and their possibilities!!!

    Availability!!!

    At present, their is only one person making US signals that are for sale! He uses a Bi-Color LED (red/green) to project red, yellow, or green light thru a tiny Fiber Optic cable. The LED is positioned below the landscape ground due to its size. The type LED that is used has a common ground connected to a red and green LED. Three leads for this LED. Three colors can be made to appear using the red, the green and the red & green together to make an amber/yellow color.

    In the website above, their is an electronic circuit that uses this type of LED to make an operational system. Unfortunately this system does not support Approach Lighting.

    Their is a circuit that does have approach lighting for a Target type signal.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is the circuit up close

    [​IMG]

    How cool would it be to have Approach lighting on your modules or layout?

    Plan!!!

    What are my plans? Well, I am planning on making a module or two with operational Target Signals. At present I am planning on using this system layed out above. I have one question I sent the author of that site about the circuit but have yet to get a reply back.

    I have ordered and received both the three lead and the two lead Bi-Color (red/green) LEDs needed for the majority of these circuits. I plan on making my own signals similar to the way they Bernd Bauer, from Germany, is making his.

    Here is his website;

    http://sbb-modellbau.de/pageID_4522956.html

    I welcome any/all comments to this topic. I will be posting photos and notes of the progress, difficulties and the accomplishments I encounter as I work on this project.

    Hobo Tim
     
  2. Steve F

    Steve F TrainBoard Member

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    operational signal system

    I would love to see a block signal system applicable for Z.
    What type of detection devise do you plan to use? infrared, reed switch?? How cool would this be if used on Z-bend modules?
    Steve F
     
  3. Chris333

    Chris333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't understand signals much, but around here (NS & CSX) they seem to always be red and when a train comes they turn green.

    Here is the two crossing each other in Youngstown, Ohio:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos/photo#5061740240822563186
    The signals:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos/photo#5063447133840438194

    Working signals would be cool, seems like any electronic project I try fails though. I do understand all the symbols, but in the end I get smoke signals... :sad:
     
  4. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    More Signal Sources!

    If you desire to install operational signal lighting on your Layout or Modules, and you are not Electronically Inclined, well, check out this website!

    http://www.customsignals.com/

    The model railroad company Atlas works with Custom Signals to create the Atlas Signal System.

    Here is a video of the Atlas Signal System in HO.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CKNl8V9ep8"]YouTube - Atlas Model HO Signal System[/ame]

    This video shows the systems positive points.

    Go to the Custom Signals website. Study the pages carefully. There you will find the componenets to make any combination of trackwork signal easy. I mean they can make signals operational for any type of trackwork. Just look at all the .pdf's for examples!! Wow!

    So, you can build it yourself, and hope for light signals instead of Smoke signals (Chris) or you can buy all the components from Custom Signals and make things a whole lot simpler!

    Your call!!!!

    Have a most wonderful day!!!

    Hobo Tim
     
  5. Cleantex

    Cleantex TrainBoard Member

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    Hello Tim,
    good idea to dig more deeply inside this !

    Steve was asking about the detection device. In Europe we mostly use an electronic circuit that you can buy as Kit from Conrad & Tams, but also already assembled from Tams.
    The GBM-1 is suitable for analog and DCC operations and just detect the presence of a loco on a portion of track by measuring the electric resistance. One circuit board is able to detect/switch up to 4 tracks.

    http://www.tams-online.de/download/GB/GBM-1_GB.PDF
     

    Attached Files:

  6. zmon

    zmon TrainBoard Member

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    Tim;

    Great forum topic...... There is a guy here in Utah that recently opened a singnal system consulting company, to aid model railroaders in adding DCC block detection and signal systems.

    After meeting Rich and talking with him on several seperate ocasions, i decided to solder feeder wires to every section of MTL flex track on my new modules so that i could easily add block detection and signals at a later point. With block detection, you will need feeder wires both before and after any block section you plan to control.

    There is another guy here in Price Utah that hand builds HO and N signals that are amazing. Gwyl and i are hoping to get Pete to build us some of his custom asembally jigs to build signals with for the modules.

    NCE makes a block dectection device for DCC that i have seen used by others, and is very reliable. How this stuff all works together is still sort of new to me, and i am still learning every day.

    Thanks Tim, for starting his forum topic, i will keep checking in over the next few months, and add any little bits of info that i can.

    Tony B....
    Wasatch Z Club
     
  7. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    Tested a Circuit!

    Earlier this week I used my fancy electronic breadboard to build the following circuit!!!

    [​IMG]

    Cool!!!! It works!!!! At first it did not. But once I got the Pinout corrected, the circuit works perfectly!!!!

    I will have operational Signal Lighting on my modules!!!! This is a fact!!!

    ------------------------------

    Detection!!!

    I plan on using a non-current sensing detector. Will be Phototransistors evenly placed along the track under the tie. I'll place several in each block section that have a small timer to keep the lighting activated while the light flashes between the railcars. The guy who designed these circuits has given me some insight into what I need to do to make it all work!!!

    Have a great day!

    Hobo Tim
     
  8. Steve F

    Steve F TrainBoard Member

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    Is that a red/green bipolar LED Tim ?
    (cobwebs where my brain circuits used to be)
     
  9. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    Bi-Color LEDs

    I am using the Kingbright Bi-Color LED, red & green, with 2 leads. Red one way and green the other. Yellow is produced as alternating current.

    The other type of Bi-Color LED, red & green, has 3 leads. One is a common ground (negative-cathode) and one each positive-annode for each of the colors, red & green.

    Kingbright.com has both types of LEDs, cheap. Just register with them and you can purchase small amounts of LEDs, cheap!!! Ngineering Nano and Micro SMD LEDs are expensive, Kingbright is super cheap!!!

    Hobo Tim
     
  10. Mike Skibbe

    Mike Skibbe TrainBoard Member

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    That would indicate to me that those signals are controlled by the dispatcher and arn't on an ABS or similar logic circuit like Tim is proposing.

    In Erie terms, what you're seeing would be how the signals were operated in CTC territory. The dispatcher, sitting at his CTC board, would align routes and then clear signals for each train as it approached and moved through his territory. It was common practice to "keep the board clean" by realigning turnouts to Normal and signals to Red. That way, if a train snuck up on his territory, it wouldn't be cleared through on the path that was set for the prior train.

    ABS (and similar) signals were on their own to figure out what indication to display. They weren't controlled by any dispatcher or towerman. All the signal cared about was talking to the signals on either side of their block. If that signal said it was green or yellow, the signal would display green. If that other signal was red, it would display yellow. If that signal saw something in it's block, either a train, or a swicth thrown against the flow of traffic, it displayed red and told the signal next to it to display yellow.

    These were obviously simplified, but should give you the idea. ABS signals could be approach lit to save power and lamp life as well.
     
  11. yoshi98bc

    yoshi98bc TrainBoard Member

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    Just wondering what you plan on using for the actual signal stand itself?
     
  12. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is a Target Signal I scratchbuilt using brass tubing and home brass etching, thanks to Chris's CAD help.

    The photo below shows the first signal I built.

    [​IMG]

    It looks goofy due to the Bi-Color SMD LED on the back of the signal. I will change this to a fiber optic similar to the one made in Germany except my signal will hopefully look more prototypical!!!

    Hobo Tim
     
  13. JR59

    JR59 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Looking good Tim! Go ahead and make a bunch of it. :)
     
  14. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    US Target Signal Revision!

    If you look at the photo above, the signal looks pretty good except for the bulky section behind the Target head. That is the SMD LED glued to the back of the brass tube. I have since removed the SMD and am waiting for some appropriately sized fiber optic cable to arrive that will fit inside of the small brass tubing used as the post.

    The tubing is the same size as what Ngineering has except it is from K&S Metals. I prefer the brass cause it solders well to the brass etched parts. I do not have to worry about CA glue separating.

    At this time I am not building any more of these till I finish up all of my current customer SW1 projects and a select few other projects, but the Signal System is top on the list!!!

    Any questions, I am open!!!!

    Hobo Tim
     
  15. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    Working on Signals

    Today I took two hours to start building a few parts for my Target Signals. Tubing, styrene, etched brass, solder, just a few things. Here are some photos!! Even fixed my first signal!!!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and a cool scene!!!

    [​IMG]

    Enjoy!!

    Hobo Tim
     
  16. Steve F

    Steve F TrainBoard Member

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    Looks good Tim,
    All set for the fiber optics?
    Will the LED be in the base or under it?
    FYI: I've used a heat source (soldering iron) to "bend" a fiber optic, it can be tricky. You can also use heat to flare the end which acts as a lens for better light transmission.... easy does it.
    Steve F
     
  17. kimvellore

    kimvellore TrainBoard Member

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    Tim,
    I just read something about CA not sticking.... a word of caution do not use CA with fiber optics cables. It weakens the fiber and breaks it. I had been using CA in my truck to glue FO cables and I had to do it over 6 times till I realized CA breaks down FO plastic. The crazing on the outside of the FO cable is enough to reduce the internal light reflection so the end of the FO is no longer bright.

    Kim
     
  18. Chris333

    Chris333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Tim,

    I really haven't messed with my signals, but did you happen to try those nano LEDs? You should be able to fit 3 inside the target. That was my plan till I tried to solder one.

    I tired a fiber optic once and it was pretty dim.

    Either way they look great ; )
     
  19. Cleantex

    Cleantex TrainBoard Member

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    Optical fiber

    Hello guys,

    I work a lot with optical fiber, and find out an easy way to bend it.
    It works pretty good.

    First you take a new,cheap Chinese SMD-Soldering Iron, that for 12Volt with such red handle and black end, that you can buy for a buck on Ebay. Not very good for SMD, but marvellous to ply optical fiber.
    Second, you applicate between 5V-6V DC on this iron. This will give you exactly the right temperature for bending.

    For CA, I confirm what Torsja is saying, I have best result with half-flexible transparent houshold glue from Pattex with no solvent. But Zap-o Odourless also works, but expensive.

    On the german signal, Bernd was using the whole mast as an optical fiber, there is no brass, so he could use bigger diameter.
    The ladder he made from polyester, like all the small parts on his lamps.

    But Tims version is for sure better looking :thumbs_up:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2007
  20. david f.

    david f. TrainBoard Supporter

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    thanks, armand, for that tip!
    dave f.
     

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