Kato Unitrack N Scale Track Discussion

Hardcoaler Jul 6, 2017

  1. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I spoke to a N Scale Unitrack user and learned that all 6-Axle diesel power and most all steam locomotives will not navigate Unitrack No. 4 Turnouts at any speed. This is really disappointing news, as I planned to use these in my yard and industrial spurs. :( I never imagined such a thing, as my old No. 4 Shinoharas handle everything fine. So then do y'all use No. 6s everywhere or do you not run 6-axle power?
     
  2. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Basically, that is bull***t. #4s will work just fine. I run lots of 6-axles and steam everywhere on my layout, including the yard. While I tend to use 4s primarily in the yard, they work just fine if tweaked
     
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  3. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Like Rick says...#4's work fine with 6 axle diesels. You just arent gong to shoot through them at mainline speeds....:eek:;):sneaky:
     
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  4. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I am SO happy to read your replies -- thank you thank you thank you. I've worked hard developing some draft track plans and was depressed by the No. 4 "news". Thanks so much guys for putting my mind at ease.
     
  5. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    You may have to file pockets for the point rails to fit into. That is the "issue" with #4s. But it is an easy fix, and they work fine from then on.
     
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  6. Maletrain

    Maletrain TrainBoard Member

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    Kato #4s are basically 19" radius curved sections of track, so it is not the radius of their curvature that is the problem. As others have posted. Kato #4s do often have a problem with locomotive wheels (especially the lead poney wheels on steam locos) "picking" the points and going where the rest of the wheels don't follow (the route not aligned). That may be why that guy told you that most steam locos and 6-wheel truck diesels can't get through them at any speed. Those are the locos that are most prone to point picking. So, you should take seriously the recommendation to modify the #4s before you install them. If you do not feel like doing that, then you probably should avoid the #4s. I have run small Bachmann steam engines (4-6-0 and 2-8-0) through Kato #4s without any issues, but immediately had the point-picking problem when I tried a Kato 2-8-2.
     
  7. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Okay, now I understand what the deal is and 19" is indeed plenty enough radius. I think I recall a Mike Fifer video on YouTube that covers the details on making the No. 4s more reliable, I need to watch it again to see how it's done.
     
  8. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    I can no longer find John Sing's (@atsf_arizona) posts here (they were in the old Unitrack group we had, but those were archived during the change over to new software). Here is an external link to his technique. Basically, file a small notch in both stock rails, and sharpen the points "into points" instead of the square cut rail that they are.
    http://www.pbase.com/atsf_arizona/image/151545252
     
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  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is the same cure which I am recalling.
     
  10. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I have a Kato No. 6 Turnout and am able to experiment with it, understanding its live frog and convenient power routing function. I will have a DC railroad.

    Is the Kato No. 4 similar in all respects, with a live frog and power routing? Is the frog on the No. 4 plastic or metal? I fear stalling if it's plastic. I can't quite tell from on-line photos and I have no local hobby shop to visit. Thanks again guys.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  11. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    The 4 and 6 are very different. You have CHOICES with the 4s, based on how you place the setting screws underneath. Just note the wording next to the set points are counter intuitive. You get a choice of power routing or not, by leg, and if you want the frog live or not. It is blackened metal, and is best set live.
     
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  12. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Whew! Glad to know that the No. 4 frog is metal. Thanks again Rick. (y)

    Why would anyone want a non-powered frog?
     
  13. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    Do you mean "counter intuitive" or just plain wrong? IIRC, Kato included a slip of paper with these that indicated that they messed up and reversed the markings. Is that correct?
     
  14. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Well.... the frog power is very clear and correct.

    The reason I say "counter intuitive" rather than just "wrong" is the wording used. For most of us, we would say it is wrong, since putting the screw in the "power routing" position, to us would mean "Power is routed to the leg only when the leg is selected by the switch position". However, if you actually pay attention to what the screw positions do, the position labeled "power routing" actually routes power to the leg at all times, and the "non power routing" position only routes power to the leg when it is selected.

    As I said, most of us think the labels are simply wrong and reversed, but there is a good semantic argument than can be made that they are correct, and we are just interpreting them incorrectly.

    Honestly, I would never depend on these screws, anyway. I always place feeders on the legs, to make sure there is power on all rails.
     
  15. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Good discussion here and thanks again. As I looked at my No. 6 Turnout last night, I noticed that there are only two wires. Being a three-wire guy, I was left scratching my head, then during my evening walk I figured that Kato set up the machine to move each time the DC supply polarity is changed. I've not tested my theory yet, but if it's right, that's very clever of Kato.

    I'm not sure if I'll use Kato's turnout and block power controls or provide my own. I enjoy wiring.
     
  16. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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  17. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Rick. That looks like the ticket.
     
  18. gatrhumpy

    gatrhumpy TrainBoard Member

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    This is horsecrap. I have mostly 6 axle units and they navigate the turnouts just fine.
     
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  19. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for confirming this gatrhumpy. When I heard the initial "news", I was ready to throw my track plan in the trash and cross Unitrack off my list. I'm glad that I paused and asked y'all about it. I guess model railroading is like the automotive hobby, where it pays to double check what one hears. I've read some terrible "expert" advice on automotive forums and cringe at the thought that anyone abided by it.
     
  20. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    I've just done some experimentation on taking Kato 4's and not just tuning them - but painting them for yard track - i.e. flat black roadbed, grayed ties, and brown rusted rail. Blended in with some actual cinder ballast, they look pretty good for yard track - you'll never get enough cinders on the track to either ruin the turnout or look odd, so painting the roadbed first seemed to way to go. So far, so good, see a set at Altoona.

    The Kato 4's really do have an issue with the points not firmly locking with the stock rails or being sharp enough. I 'think' I've fixed both issues. For T-trak modules, I'm going so far as to actually drilling a .015 hole in them to hold an HO spike to make SURE those points neither move or get tampered with during heavy show use.
     
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