Can anyone identify this 1908 Pittsburgh Loco?

SleeperN06 Oct 20, 2018

  1. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    I came across this old photo and was just wondering what it was.


    Pittsburgh 1908 Locomitive.jpg
     
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  2. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I wonder if the shot was taken as the area's street railways were being built? In any case, it's a neat little saddle tanker.
     
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  3. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    Oh! Now that makes sense. I was thinking coal for the mills, but now I believe it may have been carrying bricks for the streets because all those streets were brick. And the rails may actually be for Streetcars. WOW Thanks.
     
  4. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    I was was going to say something about the steel mills too, but that train seems awfull small for such a large industry. I saw some streetcar pictures while looking at Pidgeon Hill, but I didn’t arrive at that conclusion. However, it makes sense. Now the hard part is probably going to be identifying the locomotive. Could it be a Porter?
     
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  5. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    I first thought it might be caring bricks for the street, but after enlarging the photo, I see that it is some sort of dirt, sand or something, The last car looks like its carrying large rocks so I don't know unless its bring in fill dirt.
     
  6. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    The house to the right looks like a good railfan roost.
     
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  7. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    I doubt if the tracks are for future street cars. Street car tracks in cities were channel rail to keep paving material from filling in flange ways.

    upload_2018-10-20_13-29-1.jpeg
     
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  8. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    A good point Hytec. Perhaps the more expensive specialized streetcar rails came later after the heavy haul grading was completed? We may never know, but it's a cool photo for sure.
     
  9. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    Streetcars started around 1895, but didn’t really start developing until 1902. None of those streets were paved in those days and every street was either cobblestone or brick so its possible the track were replaced later on.

    I’m not sure exactly where this was, but I lived about 3 to 4 miles from the area in the 50’s. I don’t remember any railroads there, but they did have street cars unless it was temporary tracks used in the construction of the town.
     
  10. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    What is that deck truss bridge in the background? That could be a location identifier. I am looking on the internet, but I can’t find much.
     
  11. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    Update: I found your photo in the Pittsburgh city collection like the watermark says, and I can confirm that it is indeed a Porter locomotive. Luckily it is a high quality photo, because it says it on the smoke box door. 2B168658-EF59-4800-8716-28402D488B73.jpeg 80079880-FFAB-4084-8487-960A4E31BA32.jpeg
     
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  12. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    I just looked up “Porter locomotive works archives” and the Internet Archives has a Porter catalog. https://archive.org/details/lightlocomotives00hkporich/page/n0 The inside title page has the year 1908, and guess what year your photo is: 1908. I zoomed in on the photo, and you can only see two wheels before the gondola trucks, so this is a 0-4-0 tank locomotive. On page 64 of the document, they have the class B-S. It has the pipe running down from the sand dome as well as the riveted brackets on the front of the saddle tank. The photo looks like it has a partial running board on the tank which the catalog does not, but you have to remember that locomotives were pretty much built to order. It is also the only one in the catalog that does not have the tank around the smoke box and also has a wooden cab, so unless the locomotive was bought in a different year, this is your man. 00E9D549-9211-48E5-900B-7C6484385CBC.jpeg E3C56FC2-982B-4FAE-A1D8-C142326EB071.jpeg
     
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  13. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    WOW! That's great, I just don't know how you find this stuff. I've been searching Google and I didn't find anything like this. Your good.
     
  14. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    I remember seeing trusses like this when I was a kid and they did tear down a lot bridges since then. I also see some smoke stacks in the background that look like the ones from steel mills. Most of the mills were along the Monongahela River which is kind of far from Squirrel hill so it must be along the southern border. There was a steel mill someplace near by, but I can't remember the name. I'll look at google maps and try to find it.
     
  15. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    I am getting locked in on location too. When you go on the Pittsburgh City Collection where the steam locomotive photo is from, and search for “squirrel hill”, they have this other photo too, among many others: 6BEFF05E-2473-441B-8999-EB64ECFE6A77.png 74AF8B62-50F1-4314-A7F9-308F0BBF238D.png
    The title of the locomotive photo doesn’t help much, but the other one is a street intersection, and you can’t get much better than that. I Google Earthed those two streets, but they don’t intersect. I went back to my Pittsburgh maps. I selected the Greater Pittsburgh Atlas 1910 set from this website. https://historicpittsburgh.org/maps-hopkins There are a few different maps that have sections of Squirrel Hill, but the one that has Schenley Park in the top left corner (plate number 25 in the Atlas) The map has the intersection of the two streets, circled in red. The photo shows train tracks that curve to the left behind the mountain. The green circle on the map is that curve. I also happened to circle the railroad name, the Pittsburgh Junction Railroad. The green arrow is the direction the photo was shot. Circled in blue is Sylvan Avenue-The Viaduct. We have our location. EAF61AC6-B8BD-4D81-B368-D5E011B33419.jpeg 623A4A7B-BD5A-4E6F-AAD4-6C69A3B4FBC5.jpeg Here it is on modern Google Earth. Greenwich Street is still there, but Forward Street is now Saline Street. The modern Forward Street is on the other side of Squirrel Hill. It looks like 376 has taken over a section of the the PJRR alignment. The red circle is the same intersection as the 1910 map. The Sylvan Viaduct is now Frazier Street. Now I need to figure out the orientation of your original locomotive photo.
     

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  16. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    I found you want a larger view for some context, here is a zoomed out Google Earth View. The Squirrel Hill North and South neighborhoods are at the top, and downtown Pittsburgh is to the bottom left, out of frame. The view I posted in the previous post is circled in red. 292030D0-420C-4DDA-BC52-0271DCCCD06D.jpeg
     
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  17. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    OK well that certainly looks like the bridge and there is definitely train tracks WOW that is interesting, Thanks. I'm going to look through those maps. I can't believe I've never seen those tracks before.
     
  18. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    I don’t think the tracks are on the map. Greenfield has tracks on the 1910 map, but I think your photo was taken on Foward Street. If you look past the viaduct, you see the railroad embankment on the right from the other photo, so this one is looking the opposite direction because it is on the left on the Greenfield shot. These can’t be the greenfield tracks because the viaduct connects with greenfield, but Forward is the only street that goes under it. Also, the City Collection website has a bunch of photos with titles like “Forward and (street name)”. They all have the tracks, but yours is the only photo taken on that date with an unrelated title. Behind the embankment is a brick building. Based on the map, that is the Sylvan Public School, and behind that are the Cowper stoves for one of the Jones and Laughlin blast furnaces. Behind the viaduct bent, you can also see a chimney. Since there are no more to the left of it, this is number five on the map. If you draw a line from that, past the school, and under the viaduct, you end up at the number 60 on the map. F5292E70-0760-4D8F-9D8A-904CE521B0A6.png E7786666-7281-4A8B-81E8-6C2F87B88DEE.jpeg
    If you look at this zoomed in view, the red dot is the location where your photo was taken. The three buildings have the porches on the right, and the buildings on lots 39-43 are the ones on the left. You can see some tire ruts in front of those houses, that is probably Alexis avenue. 1E6F12C8-822D-4659-9CEF-F1C40934866F.jpeg
     
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  19. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    Here is what is really crazy. Here is the same view from today. In less than a month, that photo will have been taken 110 years ago. Not too much as changed in 110 years. The empty lots in 1908 are still empty, and the viaduct is still there (but modernized). 81F63DD6-18AE-4450-976A-91385F83C7D2.png 54F5741E-2B72-4F1E-9024-230A5D208880.png
     

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  20. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    Wow, I’m just so impressed and blown away by how much you were able find out from this photo and even the exact location. I’m at a loss for words. Do You do this kind of stuff for a living? You are very good at it.

    Anyway, I'm so excited about all this and can't wait to show this to my friends. Thank you Mr. Trainiac
     
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