N-Scale Empire in 3-Car Garage

Elliott Barber Feb 26, 2022

  1. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    ::: WARNING!! We've got a novel here! ::: :LOL:

    Good day, folks!

    As I said in my new member introduction, I have switched gears. I have decided it is in my best interest to switch scales... Again! I had begun acquiring O-Scale 3-rail equipment with plans to build a nice layout in this same space. One that my father, who may not live to see it come to fruition, would have an easier time assisting with, operating, and seeing. Unfortunately, I realized that I am probably not going get this completed in time for him to enjoy. So I have decided it makes no sense to try to sell off all of the excellent equipment that we have accumulated together over the last three plus decades of focusing on N-Scale. Plus, this is now going to be a labor of love and a 'living' monument to my father.

    I have to leave a somewhat functional "hang out" space to keep the boss lady on board, but it also gives me plenty of ingress into the attic storage. That is accounted for in the 5' of space along the "top." Keeping her happier helps things progress more quickly and she is already less than enthused that I will essentially be eliminating the door from the garage into the backyard, but sacrifices must be made. HA!

    I am currently building this in AnyRail using Unitrack, because of the fact that we have a BUNCH of it already, but I figure I can always rework it if need be using another manufacturer's track. (Especially if there were to be overwhelming info/evidence against it) I plan to give it a Southwestern feel, predominantly because that is what I have seen most regularly most of my life. I am, therefor, rather found of that 'feel' and it gives me plenty of references and very fond memories to draw from. It will essentially be freelanced but will have some very Cajon/Soldier Summit feels to it. I will definitely be using DCC. I hope to have enough 'work,' and space, to have at least three people to be operating simultaneously when the possibility arises. I have seen a few things where people have noted operating their rolling stock at OVER NMRA standards and all have stated that it improved performance. Anyone here have experience doing the same? I'm kicking around doubling the "standard."

    The lower level is what I am concentrating on currently. I plan to have that at 42" off the floor and then gain the elevation as I move around the layout peaking at 62" at summit, then dropping to 60" at the yard on the second level just above the main yard on the lower level. Yards will double as staging and classification. The small yard on the penninsula will be a smaller "local" yard for the road that will operates up the pass via trackage rights (likely Santa Fe/BNSF). The main road will be Union Pacific. It will be 1995 - Presentish as I miss the days of SP/DRGW/CNW and, have plenty of rolling stock and power from that time period, and... as I once heard someone with a MOST impressive layout say, "Well, it's MY railroad."

    I like the idea I saw somewhere during some recent research about limiting cars per powered axle. I like the prototypical 'feel' of that. I have been kicking around some parameters for operations based on that idea. I'm leaning towards locals operating with no more than 2 powered units at 1 car per powered axle. Mainline trains operating at a maximum of three powered units on the headend at 1.5 cars per powered axle, not to exceed 10' total length. I have a pocket track in the main yard (lower level) and a siding at Summit for "helper" use, which would be handy if operating higher than NMRA weight standards. In any case... Still dilberating on additional industy/customers along the way before and maybe after Summit. (any ideas?) I am also trying to envision how I am going to "transition" in the area where the layout essential crosses over the top of itself. A bridge of some sort, maybe? I dunno... I have plenty of time to iron that out. Hahaha...

    Any ideas/critiques/warnings welcomed. If you have made it this far with me... "THANK YOU!":ROFLMAO:

    GarageVERnscale1.1a.jpg
     
  2. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I can only speak for myself. When I planned / built my current layout I wish I had started with one area and got something running / sceniced and gradually expanded from there.

    Given time, space and resources? Ya, You might want to just build the bench and lay the track of the mainline.
     
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  3. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    I completely understand that idea, and I agree! Get something 'done' so the dominos feel like they're actually falling. I do intend to lay the mainlines first and then as time and resources permit complete one section at a time. Heck, the final iteration will have some subtle differences once all is said and done, I just want to have an overall gameplan to know where I want said mainline/benchwork. I do sincerely appreciate your input, Grey One! Thank you!
     
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  4. MRLdave

    MRLdave TrainBoard Member

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    I've got my mainline roadbed down, and hope to get the track laid soon (I retire at the end of March)....right now I have been building buildings for my downtown, which is roughly 2' X 12'. My main goal with that, is I'm using "standard" blocks, so finding the right combinations of buildings to fit the spaces AND making sure I have enough buildings is the goal. It's not really important as far as getting trains running, but at least it feels like I'm making progress with the layout. The important thing is to do SOMETHING whenever you can.
     
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  5. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    I like that point of view as well, Dave. Progress is progress.
     
  6. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    Let's, for the sake of this thread, assume left is the west end and right the east, and so on.

    At the western throat of the largest, most southern yard, I have drawn up a flyover. That area in the southwest corner is going to be where I have the 'return loop' after the top yard. If my bottom level is at 42" and the top deck at 60" am I going to create issues there? Should I rework that so that I have a different entry to the main somewhere else?
     
  7. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Looks like it will be a great layout. I'm wondering about....

    Are you going to use a helix to gain that elevation? At a 2% grade that looks like over 160 feet of track to gain the elevation (either in a helix or as a long run). I can't tell from the track plan if the accent to the higher level and the tracks there are shown or not. Thanks,

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  8. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Get your dad a job working on the railroad all the live long day, even if it's just a supervisory position from a comfy chair. Yeah, O would allow him to help more, but there is a big advantage to running what you brung. I think he'd be as happy watching you build it as watching you run it, as long as he gets to hang out. And he'll still be around to do it, if you get busy.

    As for your wife, she's right. Give her a little. Keep the fire exits clear. Is that door on the west wall, just south of the water heater (if your map isn't true to the compass, don't admit it, just roll with me here)? You could give a couple of feet there, for safety, marital harmony, and access to the derailment in that southwest curve.

    This isn't a dog bone. You get down to single track. That's a positive pleasure in three rail, giving you a great operational challenge that's totally realistic. In N, it includes an unrealistic operational challenge to boot: You have to reverse the polarity of that track, or include an auto-reverser if DCC.

    The track to the backshop normally bypassed the turntable. In the steam power era the backshop is quite the space consuming luxury, and unnecessary. In the 90s, the roundhouse and turntable are the space consuming luxuries, and realistically should look useful mainly to railfan archaeologists (abandoned and crumbling). But I understand the appeal, and it's your railroad. You have to see and saw to put a locomotive on an eastbound train; access from the engine facility to the southeast end of the ladder would be nice. But maybe you planned on sending all trains west, to parade the peninsula. I don't know about all that.

    I don't know why you named that place Summit if it keeps going up. Your Summit might wind up in the southwest corner, right? If the door is there and not far from the tank, you could put Summit right in the corner, giving you access to it. With the lower level away from that wall, the mountain will loom over the town less. Many passes had tunnels at the top; a club I used to belong to had staging tracks in their tunnel, with access from underneath. Lets you help one train up into the tunnel, then another train comes out.

    Normally helper engines were cut on in sizeable yards with engine facilities, cut off at the top and they came straight back. They aren't generally attached to downhill trains. So I think you want to run without them from Real Summit through the peninsula, and cut the helper back on at the yard, when the train's eastbound.

    There's a line that comes off the peninsula as triple track, thankfully narrows to single, and crosses everything on grade crossings that range from common and cheap to custom made and probably derailment magnets. I'm at a loss to justify it. To use that to go through the peninsula loop, you have to switchback--back the whole train onto another track over a crossover that faces the wrong way--twice. And if the train's any length at all, you have to pull forward between backing maneuvers. I don't know what that line's for, but about now I'd be asking myself how badly I want it.

    You're currently running your horseshoe backwards, if I understand your intentions correctly. Eastbound trains turn left sooner, not later, and pass closest to the audience. The theater calls that downstage. Back against the backdrop is upstage, and the train climbs through the horseshoe clockwise and past the siding marked Summit to put the up in upstage. Looks better to save the bridges for scenic streets and streams. Eliminate the spaghetti effect, and overhead clearance headaches until you get all the way to the top loop. Let your trains show. You could wind up with no shelf at all, other than the sort of shelf the prototype might blast out of a granite wall.

    One good novella deserves another. Looks like fun! Enjoy!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  9. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    Good question! I quickly realized that I most DEFINITELY "mathed" that wrong. I do still want to have a grade working EB/NB out of the lower yard, and a less aggressive but still present grade from Summit to the upper yard, but NOW we can actually stay in the 1.8%-2.0% MAX range for EB/NB trains.

    P.S. Is that your watercolor painting in your profile pic?
     
  10. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    To reduce by two feet without making the main yard shorter, don't run a ladder to the main line. Turn eastbound trains left earlier, as noted, at the east end of the yard, and run the inside track straight through two right hand switches. The inside track becomes your ladder.
     
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  11. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    Yes... I had basically planned to have everything leave the yard, as you gathered, westbound. Akin to SP/UP and all trains leaving West Colton heading east regardless of destination. You do bring up some good points though. Easy access to the east ladder would be helpful. Especially with the way the peninsula is currently configured. Then I could have my EBs and WBs leave as such.

    Also... how BAD do I really want the turntable? Originally I had thought about making the South Yard where UP kept their historical equipment in my little N-Scale universe, and as such, I had that to be able to turn/stow the Big Boy, #844, #3985 (NOT retired in my u-N-iverse), and #6936. I may rework the layout of the turntable in relation to the rest of the facility or, at the very least, rework some bypass tracks to get to the back shops. I appreciate you taking the time to

    That is one area that I may not keep. I don't know. I designed it to be a flyover from the switching/local yard that ties back into the main along the South Yard. I LIKE the idea, but I am not sure if I am going to keep the peninsula "as-is' or rework it entirely.
     
  12. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    Most current design...

    Lower Level:

    GarageVERnscale1.1bLOWERnotes.jpg

    Upper Level:

    GarageVERnscale1.1bUPPERnotes.jpg
     
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  13. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    An extra small (long but relatively narrow) yard with an engine facility for helpers on the side is not impossible for the BNSF at the base of a grade, if they can buy space on the mesa. But local sidings would likely be worked by the home road. That could happen at the start of a helper grade even if it's a distance away from the junction, totally off BNSF rail. It's highly unlikely, though, to see a yard on a tough ascent. They don't trust their parking brakes that much. So I'd say, more peninsula yard, less upper yard--just enough to idle a few helper engines until traffic clears.

    The door isn't where I thought it might be, but moving the lower level away from that other wall would still aid access to derailments, and eliminate a possible fire hazard if that's a gas-fired tank. And by going shelfless as I described, you eliminate all that east end rigamarole, making the visible track longer. Trains only hide from anyone in the mountain in the southwest corner (a nice substitute for an upper yard). You can even lengthen the peninsula.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  14. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    The problem with that lies at the top/northern area of the garage layout. The 5'+/- area up there also gives me the space to safely and easily access the attic storage for all of the seasonal decorations up there. It is also going to allow for the wall-mounted bar-height shelf tables and seating area that has been requested.


    The upper yard will be level at 60" and the lower will be level 42". I am considering having the WB/SB line toward Summit, from the Upper yard, gain 2" of elevation. The helix will have a 2-2.5" grade based on the specs online. Once exiting the helix, the EB/NB main towards Summit will climb 4" to the summit and maintain the maximum ruling grade of the helix at 2.5% (based on the slope calculations in AnyRail) So neither yard will be on a grade/slope. Hopefully, that makes sense.
     
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  15. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    [​IMG]

    Yes my avatar is a water color of a UP E9 in Laramie, Wyoming. I took the picture of the E9 when I lived in Laramie during the 60's/70's and then did the painting in 1977. At the time I took the photo I rented a two story building (one of Laramie's oldest) and rented sleeping rooms out on the second floor and lived in one of the store fronts on the first floor. The building was on one side of 1st St. with UP's main line just on the other side of the street, hence my desire to model UP during that time period.

    I've only done a half dozen paintings in my life and somehow my folks got that one, framed it and held onto it so I eventually got it back. I don't think I could ever paint it again. The picture/painting is looking down the tracks and the station was to the left in the picture and the walkway over the yard is down in the distance.

    Seems strange to me that the engine I took a picture of and painted is still around. #951 has carried its original number since being put into service in the 50's and is part of UP's Heritage Fleet. In 2019 I bought #951 in N scale from fellow TrainBoard member Lowell Johnson. The painting hangs in our bathroom today. I also noticed that 'Trains' on here also uses #951 with a similar shot from the opposite side of the loco.

    It is going to be fun following your layout build,

    Sumner
     
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  16. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    I get it now. A helix in the southeast corner.

    I wasn't talking about invading the space just inside the garage door at all.

    Even with the helix you could lengthen the peninsula. Angle eastbound trains out of the yard northeast, then curve them northwest. No need to roll due north. Narrow the space between the hidden reversing loop and the helix. Make it wasp-waisted. Longer peninsula.

    That said, the big difference that east end business makes is raising the upper level. If you're in the middle, the train disappears for quite a while, then comes back high. But a person in the Optimum Viewing Position sees the train roll slightly farther my way, just climbing naturally. And without interruption.
     
  17. Elliott Barber

    Elliott Barber TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you, sir! I am excited that I finally really feel like I have a plan that is actively moving toward the sweet sounds of trains rolling around the garage. Very nice painting. I once aspired to be as talented as Ted Rose. My AP Art Portfolio focus was "trains in watercolor."

    The small peninsula? Or the large main peninsula? Which direction are you thinking you would extend it? The only reverse loops would be the one out on the small switching peninsula and the one at the westernmost end of the upper yard.
     
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  18. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    I see several areas, mostly in the lower inside bend at right, where reach is beyond 30" (and some >= 36"), which with a lower level height of 42" will be a significant problem while operating. Much of it can be mitigated by narrowing the open space between track and front edge of benchwork (bring the track closer to the front, or push back the front edge of the benchwork.) Also, reaching over the lower level to access some of the upper level trackage will be difficult.

    You may want to invest in a "topside creeper" or similar for working on the layout.
     
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