Well after seeing Jurg's MILW 4-6-4 locomotive from West Model I noticed with a little imagination it looked like a Berkshire (2-8-4). So My plan is to build one in Z. Erie had more Berkshires than any other RR (105) and I have built one in N already from a NKP locomotive. Here is more info on the real thing: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/berkshire/erie.shtml I plan to make a S-4. Fred Ladd was nice enough to sell me a kit he had which arrived before my Marklin 2-8-2 set I scored on E-bay. Here are the West Model parts laying next to a Z scale drawing of the Erie Berkshire. You can see the kit tender is a bit short. I was going to cut it in half, lengthen it, and add new sides, but that would have wasted a perfectly good cast brass tender. So I started building a new core from 1/32" thick brass soldered together (thick brass sucks up heat fast!) Then I drew up sides to etch in .005" brass. I used CAD and traced right over the Z scale drawing. The rivets are dimples and I figured as long as you could see their reflection in the light it would get the job done, Hope it looks OK after paint. I glued the thin sides to the thick walls, added a top and hatches along with ladders and some styrene bits. Add that to a frame made of a thick slab of brass and the West Model trucks and you get this: As of yet I have no idea how a Marklin 2-8-2 chassis runs so that part is up in the air right now. I may or may not use the West Model castings for the locomotive body, but I hope to get some extra weight up there to help pulling. And if needed there is tons of room in th tender for a 10mm dia motor. Again the stock motor may be just fine. Or it may run OK, but be in the way of the new cab. Who knows right now, I can still fail at this. Since it will be a S-4 the ash pan will be mounted to the trailing truck so I won't be using the more common NKP style truck like a S-1 would have (like my N scale model) Thought I would kick this off here and hopefully the last post will be a nice video of it pulling a train! :teeth:
So far it looks amazing! I'll tell you from experience that the marklin mikado is a marginal runner. However, if you were to add tender pickups that might make a difference. Of course you know my story, I use Jorgers and gaugemasters, and together it makes for smooth sailing. Before that combination I'd rate the marklin mikado at a C for running ability. No matter I am excited to see this thing!
Hello Chris, You make fantastic job ! Now, if you have so much place in the tender, I would make it with sound-decoder.:w20z6q: You know that I made this story with a BR52 Kondenstender, and here also you would have the place for the ESU microsound and for a firebox illumination, even perhaps with bigger size speaker than the 13mm. I can help you with everything that I know about Z sound converting, decoder connections and parametrisation and also provide you with some special parts.
Chris: I am truly in awe of your work, your abilities and your humbleness to share your knowledge with others. You inspire all of us to grow and develop our own skills no matter what gauge and what level. Keep up the good work. Barry
Joe, The tender trucks are set up for power pick up. Not all 12 wheels, but 6 (3 per truck) will suck up juice. I insulated one of the bolster mounts just like the West Model chassis. I would like to figure out how to add a capacitor as well, but with no DCC. If power pick-up is it's only flaw I should be OK. Armand, Sound would be a cool thing! Is it possible without DCC? I have no plans to ever convert to DCC, sorry.
Chris, I like the tender. The dimples should look fine as rivets, it's a pretty common practice in Z. I have quite a few of the Marklin Mikados. Most of mine are pretty good runners, although, a couple of them are dogs. The funny thing is that it's the newer ones with the blackened wheels that I have the most trouble with. The difference that I have found between the good runners and the not so good is that on the good ones, all 8 drivers make contact with the track. On the few not so good, the loc will actually rock front to back. Only about half of the drivers make contact at any given time. I keep meaning to mill the axle slots a bit deeper in the "low" wheels, but I hate quartering, and I have several that run and pull fine. They aren't power houses, but each can pull 11 FR 2 bay hoppers, one PZ 3 bay (conversion car) and a caboose on uneven track, Or, 24 Full Throttle two bays and a caboose, 30 with a little wheel slip on curves. I haven't tried it on any of my good runners, yet, but I have added some weight on a couple of my poor runners. The empty spaces in the chasis between the drivers can hold a bit of lead, and sice I move the headlights to the top of the boiler, and don't bother lighting them,anymore, I can fit a couple of shot in the shell where the light bulb normally lives. It's not a lot of weight, but every little bit helps. Dan S.
Your tender looks fantastic Chris! I think you have your etched brass skills down! As far as a capacitor for electronic flywheel effect, I cannot think of any way to do it with a DC engine, as there is no motor control circuit inside the loco, where DCC puts the power pack (effectively), inside the loco, and the wall plug on the track (in effect), with the track also acting like a wired remote control.
Chris, Awesome. Nice mix of styrene and brass. Is the tender floor made of styrene too?. Since you are etching brass you should be able to make raised rivets easily, why go with dimples? Dimples look good too. Kim
Superb Project! Pushing the limits of Z scale!! I expect nothing less from you Chris!! This project is outstanding!! I agree with the many comments that have already been posted. When it comes to breaking new ground your name is one of the few who can make the impossible into a reality!! I look forward with great anticipation to all the progress updates you post for this project!!! Hobo Tim
Kim, The brass slab I used for the frame was a hair too narrow so I added styrene strips to each side. I also have steps built, but will put them on later so I don't break them. I can draw up artwork to have raised rivets, but with my home kit they don't come out so good. To do full rivets I need to half etch the whole side which would leave the thickness at .0025", more like foil by then. I have tried it a few times and it was horrible. Using thicker brass means the rivets will be twice as tall. Professional equipment uses a pressurized tank that lets the acid more evenly eat away the metal. The guy I know with the pro equipment has it set up for Adobe Illustrator (similar to Corel). A program I don't know how to use (yet) and importing CAD files into Adobe does strange things to it. Even with correct Adobe artwork it would cost around $200 or more to have it etched. The other options are bugging you and Robert to laser raster Once I get a coat of paint on it I'll see better what it really looks like.
Hello Chris, Its the only small sound that run also on analog, but you would have no control and can put just flat juice, no impulse feeding. So the benefit is small. But he will make the sound, the firebox and the lights, but everything always on.
Hi Chris, If the craftsmanship of your tender construction is any indicator then I have no doubt that we’ll be seeing that video. As others have said the 2-8-2 (8827?) may or may not run smooth, but even if you get a dog there are options. You can fine-tune the mechanism (get all the drivers on the track first) or remoter. I think the power pick-up from the tender wheels will go a long way for the reliability of your loco. Looks like you’re off to a great start, keep the faith. Steve
Excellent. Nice hack job in little time. Gonna look nice. For the power pickup, the extra wheels in the trucks should make noticeable help, especially with the added weight for improved contact reliability. You could but small 25V or greater caps in there (don't forget transients !!), enough to fill in the gaps but not enough to impact the pure DC control. Larger caps will give you a bit of momentum effect but will significantly if not completely eliminate any specialty motor control circuits like a Joerger or ZThek. I think you be OK just with the extra tender pickups and weight overall. As for runners, the 8's have been an issue, some OK and some that can't pull more than 10 cars on flat straight track without noticable slip at certain points. The added weight may make all the difference in the world.
I doubt it, but it would be cool. Just bought some silver bearing conductive grease to help the tender trucks pick-up power. And I painted the tender shell black, the rivets are still there. Once decaled I'll post more pics. It's doubtful I will use the West Model boiler, Berkshires were huge and the cast brass boiler is too small in diameter. I have my correct sized brass tubing waiting on the sidelines and a small jar a powered tungsten for weight. Thanks for all the comments guys!
A little up-date... I now have the Mikado locomotive and the engine without the tender is 37 grams (as a baseline to compare when I'm done) The locomotive runs pretty good, so much that it surprised me and I want another one! I will need to correctly gauge the wheels so it will run through my turnouts, but that shouldn't be hard. The very good news is that the stock motor can stay right were it is and now be hidden in the firebox. I have the tubing for the boiler soldered together and I'm etching a wrapper for it now
Photos Chris! Are you etching the entire outer diameter of the brass tubing? Made an overlay wrap-around the boiler? What are you going to use to plug the inside from etchant exposure? Clay? Please show photos!!!! As a fellow home etcher, very interested in this technique!!! You are doing an outstanding job on this project. We expect nothing less after seeing your previous projects!! They are all Wonderful!!! Keep up the outstanding work!! Hobo Tim
