I am really frustrated as you can tell by the title of this post. The most recent cause of my frustration is my recent purchase of a Fox Valley Models GEVO, although it is really just the latest example of problems I have had with many recent locomotive purchases. The particular beef I have with the FVM GEVO is a real simple one: the darn headlight color. It is orange. I finally budgeted $125 for this locomotive and decoder and eagerly got it ready to run. It looks great, runs great--I was happy as could be. Then I took a track level view of the loco coming at me and noticed the headlight and ditch lights were very dim, and very orange. The cause of this is very simple: the LEDs on the main board are orange. What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on here? There is no way this color can be correct. It looks terrible. This comes on the heels of my recent purchase of a Kato SD70ACe that had the same problem. In the Kato loco, the light tubes are actually tinted orange so the only way to change the color is to change the light tubes. Before that, I shelled out $125 for a decoder equipped Atlas Dash 8-40CW with flashing ditch lights. Yes the ditch lights work and do flash when commanded, and you can actually see them if you turn out all of the layout lights and operate in the dark. FVM. Kato. Atlas. $125 a pop. Am I the only one who feels this way? Is everyone out there happy with dim or orange headlights? All of the modern HO scale locomotives I test at the LHS have nice, bright, WHITE headlights. I really am thinking of stopping the layout right now and contemplating a change of scales. Jamie
N scale is a challenge if you're into 100% correctness with a high amount of detail. I've considered multiple times moving to HO scale so that I could have more room for sound, more choices, more detail. However I'd rather have more trackage and layout than detail. so for me n scale is the way to go.
Its true you might be frustrated Jamie right now but think of it this way. You can change those LED's with some bright white ones instead of trowing away all those expensive locos. Its true that most locos in HO have the bright white LED's but believe me N scale is catching on fast no need to go extremes. Take a breather and don't go trying to sell all the stuff you already have.
Jamie, I guess I look at it a little differently. I spend $50 to $90 each for Atlas and Kato engines. For that much I expect to have to rework things to make me happy. Do I wish they would do better from the factory, heck yeah! Do I expect it? No. I expect them to cut corners to make a buck. Sadly, they haven't let me down yet.
I've got two N scale RS-2's and bought two Digitrax decoders for them. One has the bright white LED's. The other has golden white LED's. Same decoder, same manufacturer. Just change the LED's.
I'm a firm believer you have to go where you heart tells you it wants to go. If N scale doesn't meet your expectations, then switch. Not any more complicated than that.
You're changing scales over $3 and a little modeling work? http://www.youtube.com/user/U18B1969#p/a/u/0/hsqCcDpX9_0 That's too bad. So sorry you're frustrated.
In some cases, it does seem like we've kind of gone full-circle with loco lighting. Original dim-orange to bright bluish-white (better), to white-white (great), to golden-white (best ever), to banana-yellow (wha?), to dim-orange (sigh...). Russ
I have to agree with him. Headlights are WHITE! Not orange, not yellow, WHITE! I hate having to take the shells off & scraping the light.
Got to agree... I wouldn't switch scales because manufacturers are putting in the wrong 'color' or 'brightness' of headlights... but... I sure would complain. I agree with Russ' timeline of lighting for N scale... and the best ones are white-white and golden white. Can't understand how a manufacturer would allow regression to an undesireable headlight color or brightness after all of the previous complaints. I hate to think its all about money since the cost for the difference is most likely pennies... not dollars per locomotive. It is possible that the manufacturer of the white-white or golden-white variety of lights is no longer in the business of making such small N scale LEDs or bulbs... but I doubt it. It's probably the Kader effect... whatever Bachmann uses... so will any other manufacturer that uses Kader/Bachmann factories... ergo... no choice for a better light.
Solidarity Brother! Remember, you do this for fun!!! That said, it is one thing to blow a detail, or decide not to add prototypical details to different versions of the same loco, but someone had to CHOOSE an orange LED!!! Im betting manufacturers buy them in bulk. Was there such a deal that manufacturers couldn't resist the savings?
I can see Jamie's point. I do not agree that it is worth changing scales over, but it does amaze me that at a time when sales are so important to every company, how details so obvious as headlight color are not done correctly. Is there any difference in cost between an orange LED and a white one? If I were a manufacturer, I would look for every way that my product would be preferred over my competition, and represent the original as closely as reasonably possible. I would be surprised if there is any difference in the cost of an LED based upon color only. I too am disappointed in loco headlights so dim you can hardly tell if they are on, or are the wrong color.
Give Matt at Fox a call, let him know whats up. Ask him why they do such silly things. I think all of us who are anticipating the GP-60s better let Matt know that we want Golden White lights in the GP-60's not orange. I'll call him if you want, let me know ! Here's another thing to consider before going HO HO HO, how much room are you working with now ? Well, get ready to be able to do only half of that if you switch. That right there would make me not change. I want the biggest layout I can get, so, N scale baby. fatalxsunrider43
What was wrong with incandescent bulb lights? Yes, I agree: if some manufacturers can get golden white LEDs, then they all can. This does not have an appreciable effect on cost, it's just a matter of doing one's homework. Yellow LEDs are not acceptable, never have been.
Well it might be time to sit down and write out the pros and cons of HO and N. Or do a little of both scales? To the OP, testing out locomotives at the LHS is what lured me back to HO, but I still enjoy the little N scale details as well. If you have space build a layout for each scale. It's your hobby and the sky is the limit!
As my dear deaprted grandfather used to say, "Thats a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face" Lighting effects are one thing, but I am not sure it is worth bailing out of the scale for lighting. I could see that if you had multiple locomotive failure after failure. but not just for lighting effects. And to all those that say bright white, well I drive past the Roseville yard every night on my way home from the office and I have yet to see a locomotive with a Bright White headlight. Granted it is UP and maybe they don't wash the lights very often, but even on the Amtrak, who does, the lights are not Bright White. Kato tried a different approach with the SD-70ACe. They got the bright white LEDs and tried through ligth tube coloration to get it to look more natural. Unfortunately, the coloration was about 10 shades too dark. The Atlas locomotive with the flashing ditchlights, the problem there is the decoder, not the LED's. Only TCS decoders seem to know how make LED ditchlight work well. NCE is not known for thier lighting effects. As for Matt and the FVM unit, I think Matt was shooting for the Golden White and just missed the target. I am not sure since it has been a while since I ran any of those. But there is one solution you may want to explore before you kick N Scale to the curb, you can always put these locomotives behind a better looking one in an MU until you have a chance to work on the lights you do not like. Like someone said, it is semi-easy to change the LED's. If my FVM Gevos look too dim, I have a whole collection of DC light boards to scavenge a much brighter LED and swap them out. Maybe you do too........... But if you are really that upset, I do hope you find the happienss you seek in your next scale.
I do agree switching scales over LED color is kinda immature, but you did raise a good point. In this era of pre-orders, any manufacturer can easily drum up excitement, get loads of desperate pre-orders, only to release a total dud. And it's not gonna matter, since they already made a buck. After all, there is little competition/consumer choice out there anyway. That's why I think the whole pre-order culture in our hobby is evil. Would you buy a brand new automobile you never test-drove, much less never even got a chance to see at the showroom?
Actually, that's 25%. N scale is about half as big, but it takes up a quarter of the space as HO. (4x8 feet is 32 square feet. Divide the area by four, and you have a 2x4 foot space, or 8 square feet)
