Painting TBX 8801 Curto, this one's for you

Flashwave Jul 21, 2011

  1. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    And it should look like this
    PICT0167.jpg
    Now, to widen the stripe, I'm starting the second pass on top seam of the battery boxes, overlapping the two loops, and otherwise doing the same thing. Once the tape is done, run your fingernail, a popcicle stick, or a toothpick along the edgwe to push the tape edhges down. This is important for sealing the stripe off.
    PICT0169.jpg PICT0172.jpg
    and here's a quick look at tamiya's product.
    PICT0173.jpg
     
  2. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    One quick notes on High vs low short hoods. On 8801, the hood heights are the same, so I can do the masking with one stroke. 8800 though, is a short hood, and I didn't want to do the short hood entirely in mattalic. (And the crews don't want to be looking at that kind of glare off the short hood)Because of the angles of the cab, you really can'ty tell, but the short hood is taped to roghly the same height as the cab (because I hadn't figued out the cab was removeable), but the stripe is not the same height as long hood. The bottoms are the same, just the tops are off. It's something to consider in doing low vs. high hoods. Here's two shots trying to show the stripe difference, with and without the cab.
    PICT0175.jpg PICT0176.jpg

    More tomorrow, including paint, and making decals. After that, we'll do prepping the shell for the decalling process, and actually working with decals.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    I'd like to print my own decals for three reasons... 1) My local hobby shop does not carry much in N scale... mostly HO or O... and what they do have is quite expensive (more than online shopping by far), 2) I'm a stay at home dad... my wife works all the hours my LHS is open... and I don't fancy travelling all the way there, with 2 kits (one is a baby) and trying to look around, 3) If I start off doing my own, I can make anything I want/need in the future.

    The NYC8203 I want to make was a rarity in design... most NYC locos have the stripes running around instead of being black.

    NYC Logo.jpg
    NYC Text.png
    I understand the process is print, 2-3 coats of dull/gloss coat (doesn't matter... just to seal the ink), then cut, soak in water to lift off, apply.

    Great job showing the taping process. I really appreciate the effort you're taking here :)
     
  4. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    Right, but there's one part missing. Home printers cannot print whites, nor can they print opaque enough to show up on a dark background. You could try to print black and white on a white-film decal paper, but then you're trying to match printer black to paint black, which is a collosal pain. Been there, done that. Burned the postcards.

    For that, your best bet is to hit up some N-NYC guys and see if they can pouint you in the direction of a few good decal sets to cannibalize. Microscale ghas the logo in a caboose pack, and probably the numbers, but not the "New York Central" hood decal.
     
  5. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    hmm... good point on the black. How far off is it? Will grime/weathering hide the difference if I cut it to be non-straight edges? I'd like this engine to look used, not new when I'm done with it...

    Edit: I think I'll strip the paint off another shell... I'll do one as a trial run before painting the real deal ;)
     
  6. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    That kinda depends on your weathering ability, and your printer. I never was able to match blues, or blue-blacks. If you go that route, print off a few different variations from straight black to heading into charcoal, and number them, so you know which one is closest. The other thing I ran into on white-decal paper is a wicking on the edges, which someone told me was the film shrinking from the sealer, but I can't confirm if that's true or not. I do know we don't see it happen on clear sheets. I may see if I can drag Jim Wiggin or Dave or someone into here.
     
  7. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    Haven't done any weathering yet... lol.

    One thought... don't print black or any solid color... rather use a smearing of black/grey/brown?

    What sort of chalks are recommended for weathering? Where can I buy them online?
     
  8. Paul Liddiard

    Paul Liddiard Staff Member

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  9. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    I've found the decals... but I'd really like to try printing my own and weathering to blend them in...

    I got the other shell stripped off (a GP38-2 BN)... and... it's black plastic lol. Oh well, when my paint arrives I'll prime/paint it the same as I intend doing to the RS3... then when I get the decal paper/weathering kit I'll test on it first.
     
  10. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    That's what 8800 was, black plastic. It's no biggie.
     
  11. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    For the weathering... Stoney Montains have a website you can order from directly... ~$4 cheaper than ebay... http://www.shop.stoneymountaincc.com/900-Series-ORE-AND-WEATHERING-KITS_c7.htm
     
  12. Paul Liddiard

    Paul Liddiard Staff Member

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    Thanks. I knew there were some online shops that would be better than Fleaby...
     
  13. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    PICT0177.jpg
    Alrighty then, the paints still a bit tacky feeling, so I'll let it set, but it's dry enough for the BIG REVEAL!!!

    WHOO!!!
    PICT0180.jpg PICT0179.jpg PICT0183.jpg
     
  14. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    Remember what I was saying about masking? Here's why
    PICT0181.jpg
    There's a bit of a blemish there, whre the mask didn't sit, or came up on me. No biggie, a paint marker will fix that little thing, and the shadow off the sloped piece (can you tell how much I know about diesels?) will help hide the color difference, but that's also the side with the bunged step, so I may just leave it and stick a building on that side, so nobody can see it.

    Next step, after the painting, is to seal the model with Glosscoate. B sure to cover every surface smooth and consistably that you plan to have decals on.
     
  15. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    Looks good!

    I only ordered dullcote because I intend to weather my stock anyway... I assume it'll function the same as the glosscote without the shine?
     
  16. txronharris

    txronharris TrainBoard Member

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    Not to but in on the thread, but using gloss after decaling helps to blend the decal lines. I always paint in a gloss color, do a light coat of clear gloss, then shoot a light coat of clear dulcoat so everything blends well. May not the the professional way to do it, but it's worked for me with great results.
     
  17. Paul Liddiard

    Paul Liddiard Staff Member

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    Dullcoate will get rid of the shine. But you want to apply the decals to a glossy surface, let them dry, and then make sure the Micro-sol has flattened the decals, and there are no "air bubbles" that will "silver" after the application of the dullcote. Dullcoate also give a little 'tooth' for the weathering to grip. Make sure you dullcoate after weathering, so it doesn't rub off.
     
  18. Curto

    Curto TrainBoard Member

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    So... do I need to put gloss coat on after painting, before applying decals, and then dullcote? Or can I apply the decals straight on the paint (gloss black) and then put on dullcote?

    Thanks
     
  19. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    Glosscote. Decals prefer the smoother, glossy surface. And I tend to use Glosscote because I think it makes for a better sealer on the decals, but that's just speculation.
     
  20. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    Alright, so the model's painted, the glossote is drying...

    Whoops! *Sounds of Glosscote beign applied liberally*

    As I was saying, Glossocte is applied and drying, now it's time to be making some decals.

    Some quick things to know:
    • Unless youown an ALPS printer, which are now extinct, home printers cannot print white
    • light decals will not show up on dark backgrounds, like L&N, or Pullman Green, or Lark Dark Grey, or Tuscan Red, etc. This is a problem with how thick printers print decals
    • Have you ever printed something on a not-white piece of paper? the colors aren't the same, because the printer assumes a white background. Keep that in mind wen choosing the color.
    Decal paper comes in a variety of brands, in two types and sizes. You have Clear-film decal paper, and white-film. White will NOT show through what's behind it, the clear will. So, if you have a rectangular decal to make, like a stripe, this is a great way to go. If it's not, you'll have to cut very closly with the scissors. And I need an expert to chime in here, but some white films will "wick" on the edges of the decal, I've been told this si due to sealing the decal to the model, it does soemthing to the film itself, and can look ragged and nasty on the edges, even though you got a good, clean cut-out.

    Proffesional decals pad-print, that is, the only decal film is what they "print". Everything else is just paper. So if you cut out a 2x2" pice of decal paper, for a 1" decal, all you get is a 1" decal. When we print ours, the entire sheet is decal film, so if you don't want film there, cut it away. Cut it away before soaking, it's much easier.

    So, who do I use for paper? I prefer Expert's Choice. (http://www.bare-metal.com/decals/decal_paper2.html*) Expert's sells paper for Inkjet and laserjet printers, make sure you get the right kind for your color printer. Also, Expert's paper is sold in 8.5x11" sizes. I have also been using Testor's paper (http://www.testors.com/category/136937/Decals) recently, when my LHS ran out of Expert's. Personal opinion, I don't think the Testor's seals as well, but bar that, it's okay. As far as I can tell, Testor's only makes paper for inkjet printers, if you have a laserjet forget about them. Testor's paper is half-sheet size, 8.5x5.5 Printers can run this.

    Alright, when printing Decals, I put everything into MS Word. Why? Because Word has rulers (Under View, I think it is) Word is also a great place to build text based decals. Do all of those in text boxes, so you can easily move those around. When doing Texts, some good things to remember
    • Numberboards, and mileposts: Use a size 4-6 font (HO scale)
    • Roadnames (for coaches) are a 10-11 (HO scale)
    • Car names and numbers are in the 8-9 range, or 6-8 for some freight cars (HO scale)
    • If you are doing the car data, go buy the Microscale sheet of that, it's much clearer than your printer can do at that size
    Next, you need logos. To get those, measure the space for it on the side of your locomotive. A real 1" is not a real 1" if you hold a ruler to your monitor, but if it's 1" according to the Word Ruler, it's really ging to print 1".

    But Morgan, I cannot get the ruler to line up

    Because of the way Word sets things, in a linear grid setup, you often won't be able to get a shape to land exactly on the inch mark. To get a good close estimate though, zoom in to the page enough that the page will scroll over far enough to make sure you are close. IN HO, Logos need to be about 1/2-3/4" tall, and 1/4 for hood decals. An N scaler is welcome to chime in with proper measurements for their scale, but Half-HO is roughly good.


    For TBX, the logo is already made. Just right click and save the picture in my signature, stretch it to fit, and you are done. If you have to make your own logo, do that in Paint, or Phhotoshop if you know how, and then copy that into Word. If you are using Photoshop, ramp up the pixel count, makes for a cleaer picture.

    Quick note, some railroad fonts like the C&O have everything on a center line. Almost all of Word's fonts lay on the bottom line. To make a more accurate font, type it out with proper capitalization and spacing, then copy it to MS Paint, cut and drag the font up, then copy paste it back into Word.

    What's this, unwanted white stuff? IN MS Word, printers assume white is nothing, so make sure your picture doesn't import a white background, if ti does, go into teh format>>pictures toolbar, and click on the corner thingy. That's a color cropper, and if you then click on the wunated color, it will "erase it" from the picture. be warned though, it will erase all of that color, but it won't take similar but not shades of a color.


    Got everything made? great. Now, go into your paper setting in MS Word, reduce yor margins to .5 (to make best use of the paper) and adjust everything to fit. Oh, and I suggest making duplicates of things, like three of the TBX logo, if you only need 2 for the loco. Adjust everything, even turning them sideways, to best fill the paper. If you can't fill an 8.5by11, set the paper size to half, print it, cut off the excess, and you have a new sheet of 8.5x5.5. I do reccomend holding off if you expect to have multiple projects, to best fill the paper. Also, make sure you have plenty room to maneuver a pair of scissors.


    PRINT A TEST PAGE OF REGULAR PAPER FIRST. I can't stress this enough. Sometimes, printer margins will cut things off. This also gives you a chance to double check that things will fit, and that you can cut everything out without knicking things.

    Once you are done, print it, and let the ink dry (an hour's fine). Then make a loop of tape, stick it to the back of the decal paper, and tape it to something like a popcicle stick, or a pencil even. This is a handle to hold the paper when sealing it. I use Glosscote, I've heard from one person it's better than Dull, I've heard it doesn't matter, your choice.

    There is no such thing as over-sealing the paper. There is however, such a thing as too much glosscote at one time. It is possible to wash the ink off the paper when glosscoting, due to the glosscote pooling and running. Ask me how I know. Better yet, Don't. let that dry for a day. When you think it's sealed well enough, hit it with another cote.

    *Note: this link appears to be to an online store; I cannot find Expert's website. If a mod needs to take this down for policy, then my apologies and I understand, but I would appreciate some hint as to what I can put up in its place to best show the paper?
     

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