I have in the past used cheap metal disposable baking pans for this purpose. Works with Pinesol, 91% alchy and Brake fluid. Of course, they can get smashed easily and aren't as sturdy.
That's awesome. Thanks guys. My LHS showed me what happens when you soak shells in straight thinner and let's just say that F unit became abstract art that reminded me of The Presistence of Memory by Salvador Dalí. I think I'll use isopropyl alcohol since its easily available and won't cost me a fortune to dispose of when I'm done with it. Since this is a thread on preorders, has anyone posted on the TB HO Boxcar special run thread yet? I own several Atlas trailer flatcars (I like them) but no boxcars yet.
Here are my new thoughts on preorders. Back when I worked in IT we would make orders all the time. Turnaround was never more then a month at the most, and preordered items tended to be delivered within days (if not the same day) as they were advertised to be. Now to HO. True this isn't IT, but advertising is still advertising. I have a pending preorder with Athearn and Bowser via my LHS and a "IN STOCK NOW!" order pending with BLI. Athearn and Bowser keep moving the release date further into the future and "IN STOCK NOW!" doesn't mean anything. Further more MTH needs to learn how to update it's website so I don't embarrass myself with things like "but the website says in stock." I'm just surprised that so many companies in this field feel that they can do anything. Has anyone ever tried a false advertising claim against any of them? If any of the IT companies we ordered from ever tried this sort of practice you could bet someone would file suit over it. The last accidental in stock miss print I had with IT resulted in a free bump up to the item I couldn't afford which was nice since I still got what I needed and it was a better version then what I'd paid for. It's been 6-9 months and all Athearn and Bowser can say is 'they're coming in Feb, no wait, Apri, no wait, August....?' And MTH's inability to update has led me to avoid ordering from them in general since I don't know if I can and with my last 4 attempts, what's the point of trying to order if what they say hasn't been correct the last 4 times? I'll just have to see if any store has what I want ON THE SHELF since that seems to be the only way to actually get anything. I'm not trying to single out Athearn, Bowser, MTH, or BLI since they aren't alone-but why do we put up with this? I can understand a one time thing, or a manufacturing change, or shipment issue, but this is becoming a routine problem. Maybe it's just better to not preorder and wait to see if and when things get released since ads and websites are trying to sell us the dream rather then the reality. I'd like to use the advanced notice to plan for the cost, but I'd also like to get what I'd put money down for at some point too. Sorry if this comes off as harsh. I just paid my LHS another visit with the hopes of placing an order for a few things I really wanted only to find out yet again that ordering is an on going nightmare for me.
Aside from the fact that items in the pre-order category are also ones that are at the top end of my RR budget (thus I avoid), there is nothing appealing to me about waiting x number of months for something that may be postponed an additional x number of months. Those x number of months could be spend very, very patiently modeling a good example of that unit myself. And speaking of Athearn - has anyone browsed through their HO parts section and HO diesel section lately? I would be embarrassed if I was Horizon Hobby. I didn't make an actual count, but just conservatively guessing I'd say 75-85% of everything is "Out of Stock". And HAS BEEN, for quite some time. How do they stay in business? Preorders?
Sadly for me, the items I'm waiting on I can't build. They fall under the category of 'if I could have built them, I already would have.' However I think I could have striped my SP C636s and repainted them in SP&S by now. I really want the daylight articulated dinner, char car, observation car, and tavern car, but those don't seem to be in stock with anyone despite what their websites say. MTH released a few in 2011 I think but still have 'contact your local hobby store' listed. My LHS said they've been out of stock for a long time now.
I hear you - Although I will attempt to model what I can, when I started doing my present-day Empire Builder I chose to go with the newer 'plated finish' Walthers Superliner cars. Beautiful cars they are, but I do regret that decision in a way because I don't think I could match that look myself, so I am locked into getting what is out there. So far, except for the stray $250 anomaly, I have managed to keep it at $39 - $51 per car, but I have a ways to go yet.
This pretty much sums up the reason for most of the angst in these types of discussions. The reality is, operating in the Hobby Industry (including General Hobby, Model Railroad, Plastic & Die Cast and Radio Control components) is virtually NOTHING like operating in the IT hardware industry. (which for the purposes of this discussion only includes manufacturing computers, computer hardware and computer peripherals, NOT including component level circuits, IT software, or IT services.) You are comparing a 300+ BILLION DOLLAR industry to a something in the neighborhood of 1.2 Billion dollars for ALL of the components of the hobby industry referenced above. In our hobby, manufacturers/distributors/retail shops can't afford to have "regular production" units just sitting on a shelf. Stuff sitting on a shelf is bad for everybody except for a very small percentage of shoppers. Now, I will grant you that it would make sense that anything that IS on the shelf should be some of the more ubiquitous prototypes, since the likelihood of that appealing to *anyone* is better. But the reality is that many of the most common prototype locos are the hardest to procure. Part of that is that generally they WILL sell better, and the stuff that DOESN'T is what sticks around. Chalk that up to minimum runs of certain items being more than the market can bare. From the advertising perspective, that whole "In-Stock moving target" phenomenon is squarely placed on the shoulders of the China Syndrome and is only now starting to correct itself. Anyway, early on in my return to the hobby I had problems getting products before learning about preorders, and then once I started to preorder, I learned that my LHS preordered "if they felt like it". I finally found a place that served me well for many years, but now I find myself "rolling the dice" on many things so my preorders are way down. For the record, I have never put any money down, and have never been asked to. But, I also follow the practice of "buying what I order", even if sometimes it's not exactly what I was expecting. Just my small part to keep the machine rolling...I want the manufacturers to be encouraged to keep taking risks and producing great products.
Strange industry. Your opinion makes sense, "however", the growing preorder-only practice effectively ignores the hobbyist like myself. In what other retail market do you NOT see examples of the manufacturers latest and greatest products on the shelves? One of the best memories I have growing up is walking into a hobby store and seeing all the new locomotives sitting in a glass case. And come to think of it, my LHS still has that - and although he's not sharing his books, he seems to be doing a good business. Again, not really disputing your views because I honestly don't have a clue about how a hobby business - from LHS to manufacturer - makes the ends meet, but preordering has always appeared to me as a way to try to lock buyers into a premium price. Remember when the Mazda Miata came out? People were lining up in droves to 'pre-order' a very popular, trendy car...which really wasn't worth the premium 'pre-order' prices the dealers were charging.
Considering that you can reserve products at 10%, 20%, 30%, and sometimes even more percentage off the MSRP of products, I'm not sure that "locking buyers into a premium price" is happening. Can you "roll the dice" on a particular model and hope that they don't sell well and catch them on sale for less? You bet! But I hardly think NOT doing that is considered paying a premium price. Yes it's a "premium" in the pure definition of the word, but I don't feel like the manufacturers are "sticking it to us" because we are committing to buy something. (almost always a non-binding commitment, btw) I think the reality is that they are simply trying to gauge production numbers to *survive*, not to fix the market. I guess it's differing viewpoints on the same practice but, I guess I can't see it as some big conspiracy theory. BTW, I think there are MANY retail markets where you don't see the latest and greatest products. Over the years, hot video games come to mind. I feel like your most popular R/C items must be similar although I don't know that. Lego sets definitely will go straight to oblivion in a very short time period. Especially if it's the one my son has to have. I recently tried buying a specific set of step rails for my Z-71 and found ONE store in the entire D/FW metroplex (including Arlington, Fort Worth, et al) that was an authorized dealer, and they were out of stock. Same thing trying to buy a Trek bmx-style bicycle. These are all items released in the past 6-12 months. DON'T get me wrong...I completely agree with you about those great moments growing up and seeing all the goodies. I cherish that, but I also think that is still probably very possible. Back then, I wasn't so "in the zone" about which cars were appropriate for my era/area, and so on. So if I walked in as my 8 year old self today I would still probably find that same bit of amazement. At least I think I would.
Doug A., you have a very good argument. And I admit, that not having ever delved into the pre-order world I was not aware of many details, but rather had developed a definite impression - rightly or wrongly - of it over the years. I suppose most times as I saw something advertised as 'accepting pre-orders at this time', they would be located at a price range that seemed prohibitive - and so I began assuming all were of this nature. Just as a personal choice and the way I enjoy the hobby, I would rather work with what is available NOW...than get on a list for something that may be here in....how many months? I do see your point. Still a strange business though. hboy:
I highly dislike preordering, money is always very tight for me and there is no way I can get a new locomotive when they are announced, it would require planning and saving up before I could get one, and by then they will have done the run and sold out, it is then a case of looking on a well known auction site and finding one that way. I understand why they do it, I had acquired several Atlas/Proto 2000 locos in the past very cheaply as they had been hanging on stock for a while.
I'd have to disagree on some of that. True, I live in the biking capitol of America, but I've never had a hard time finding new release games-and I've been known to preorder a few. The thing about the gaming industry however is they tend to stick with a release date, so when said date arrives, they actually release it and there isn't any of this 'coming in June means December' stuff. The only game in recent memory that pushed back a release date was Mass Effect 3, but that had more to do with a PR goof then a production problem and Call of Duty 2's release date being in close proximity to the first announced date. Can't have 2 major games coming out on the same week. As for games being in stock, well they can always be ordered since they make huge numbers of copies (especially the big name ones). I can and have ordered games from me LGS (Yes, Oregon has a lot of them) that are well out of print without a problem. As for bikes, I have no less then 7 bike shops in a 5 mile radius. What one doesn't have another one probably does. Besides, there is a difference between being sold out and repeatedly never making the release date. For 90% of whatever I've needed that was sold out I can find somewhere else or order it in a reasonable amount of time, and most retail stores UPDATE their online availability. MTH says I can still get my hands on a Berkshire from 2010 since it is "in stock!" and I need to "Contact my local hobby store today!" Think that's going to happen? If anything it makes the LHSs look bad since they can't get something that has been obviously sold out for years due to false advertising on MTH's side. This being deceptive and false since they are still advertising a product as being in stock when it is no longer in production and sold out with no plans to restock. I'm rather surprised no one has nailed them on this yet. I wonder what a lot of the HO manufacturers BBB ratings are....
I checked, most aren't a member, but have a few filings against them and Bachmann is rated at A+??? I'm confused.
Yes. Again I refer back to the Horizon Hobby (Athearn) website. Page after page after page of "out of stock" items, both parts and locomotives. Is it that hard to keep your website updated? Or maybe updated is the wrong term, the items are indeed out of stock and have been for months if not years. Why keep items on there that aren't being sold? Interestingly, they also carry other makes such as Bowser, Bachmann, MTH...all of which are faithfully "out of stock" as well. And as a true glutton for punishment, I check back regularly just to wonder at the paradox of their website. It's like looking at a big-box store that only has one aisle of stuff for sale, the other 20 aisles are roped off.... What other business operates this way??
The Government. I "Qualify" for a lot of things, that I'll never get, yet I pay for. Some them are mandatory preorders for things that I'll never receive. I'm only 28 so I'll let you guess at what some of those are. The one no one would guess though is SSDI, but I don't think of myself as to disabled or unable or unwilling to work so I haven't bothered going through the hassle of attempting to get denied despite meeting all of the requirements. I still "get" to pay for it however, as we all do. Thats really the best I could come up with in terms of a place that "offers" goods or services that aren't available.
I got the dinner articulated 3 car set by BLI today. Definitely something I couldn't build and it's not your everyday run of the mill car set. Why did I choose SP again?
And I just got a Superliner lounge car to join my 2 car consist. Only 9 more to make a full Empire Builder. Why did I choose fully plated? Only 1 car away from having the Portland train to Spokane leg of the route. I am doing my part with the locomotives, a Trainline Dash 8 and 2 Athearn AMD103s. Pretty good mechanically, but the shells needed a lot of TLC. I repowered the AMD with a NWSL motor, just because I had it and I like how they run.
Funny enough I have enough superliners for the Portland section. Mine are the cheaper dull looking interior free ones however. I have a rescued DC only Athearn AMD Genesis and a newer Walthers by Athearn dcc ready one. My Kato AMD Genesis is assigned to the Talgo. If you take care of the Athearns they'll run forever. There is something to be said for seeing and test running before buying. I would have never gotten the Kato had I not gotten to see it run. The red lights on the front work when it pushes which works for me since the Talgos work in push-pull and the Genesis units seem to be on them more and more. I just wish the drag wasn't so bad in push. The Kato sounds like it's little twin motors are putting up a fight at 1/2 scale speed. I didn't bother ordering the Kato since my thinking was, "we'll I have 2 Athearns already," which means that seeing on the counter or shelf still works. Flyers by "some" companies on counters however aren't having the same impact they used to with me. Can't imagine why. If your cars are too shiny, you can always weather. Be sure the observation windows are filthy too. Every time I rode on a superliner the windows always looked grimy. Oh yeah, since I walked across that foot bridge next to Union Station every day for over a year I can tell you this, dull jet black across the top of the genesis locomotives and the baggage car-if you can find that baggage car. I still need it, and I haven't a clue as to who originally bought it and for what train. All I know is it seems to be very unique. My BSB GN car looks simular, but isn't exact.
It still is. My Daylight money pits are all preorders, and JNXT 7707 is hunting for Plated Superliners. I just commented that in some cases you might not preorder something if you think it isn't worth it, until you see it in person. Like I said, I'd have never gotten the Kato had I not gotten to see it in person. Speaking of sight unseen, I didn't expect the diaphragms on the BLI articulated dinner to be so touchy. It can all be relevant-to an extent. Oh! I got word on why my "in stock" orders are delayed. They're delayed in production. Took a 3rd party to get that nugget of info.
