Club takes the fun out of it

J911 Sep 4, 2014

  1. FriscoCharlie

    FriscoCharlie Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Human nature unfortunately. Everything has a pecking order, work, clubs, hobbies. That's probably why some of the most talented people stay to themselves and others don't join organizations at all. My wife was asked to join the auxiliary of a well-known organization a few years ago. She went to one meeting and said "no way."

    If it isn't fun, keep moving.

    Charlie
     
  2. J911

    J911 TrainBoard Member

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    Well it was just one member in particular and im not the only one having a problem.lol. as the obsolete part, its not the analog part, its the equipment switch motors etc lol rather than go an easy route its more or less treated like were designing something for NASA lol. I'll hold out and stick with the young crowd. Something has to give.
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well, through the years, I have used Norelco, Remington, and currently have a Braun Series 5. In the past I had great results with the first two. These days, nope. Guess what? I have been using that old double edge razor, as it gets a closer shave than my Braun! In fact, the past several years, there has been some movement back to the old metal blade style razors! They still work, and actually never stopped doing so. Perhaps not as convenient for those who've never used them, but they work very well.

    As to older phones, many folks still have tone and even pulse. We keep a rotary here, in fact, a couple. When the power goes out, we have a phone. (Neighbors come here to make calls.) Everyone else is toast. The past year or so, I have seen shows about emergency kits. One thing advised, is a NON-cell phone. When a storm hits, the cell towers can stop working, as they won't have power. Many people are completely unaware of this fact. Especially those who live where there are no earthquakes, snows, winds, hurricanes, tornadoes. Tens of millions of us do live in effected areas, and most are, (sadly), unprepared.

    There's nothing wrong with DCC. I have operated on layouts using Lenz, Digitrax, and NCE. But it does cost more than analog, which makes a difference for many hobby budgets. And if you have a solid, working analog system, well....
     
  4. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    Amen. Lenz did a market survey several years ago...found some silly number like 30% used dcc type control in Half 0, rest analog, numbers hadn't changed in 10 years.
    Club's been around 60 years? Cost and learning curve to update those locos to lenzology with probably a mandate by "younger" members that they have to change out the open frame motors (oh, geez, one brush is grounded, what shall we do...) then add decoders that aren't plug and pray.
    I've used dcc. But it as a system is seemingly becoming more fragmented. I decided to skip it, went battery r/c and won't look back. Now in 0, factory equipped, and I know guys in Half 0 who have done radio battery.

    Talk about new technology and stick-in-the-mud mentality.
    Try talking about radio/battery in a dcc crowd and see how far you get.
     
  5. J911

    J911 TrainBoard Member

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    Nothing mandated by younger members most if not all, already have dcc.
     
  6. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    So...it's not the whole club full of old pharts...just one...who doesn't want to get into rebuilding switches to be "dcc friendly".....and no programming tracks...and not have to listen to the next youngster telling them they need dcc controlled switch machines....and have to remove their good pulling sintered iron wheels on their Athearn disesemals... and don't have to replace their open frame motors (because a quick check on that new-fangled internet will tell them you can't use open frame motors as they're grounded on one side)(which is horse manure) and the next guy wants to put in dcc busses....and on, and on.
    It's their club.
    They were there before you.
    Folks who come in and want to change things are just like the minority groups that create a ruckus to get "special treatment" in society.
    If you don't like it, move along to another club.

    I'd have a problem if someone wanted the Early Ford V-8 club to include shove-it-or-leave-its.
    (Chevrolets).

    Or, start your own club.

    The internet is full of folks complaining about clubs they have joined.

    Dave
     
  7. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Very true.

    Or about their web groups. :(
     
  8. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    J911, I agree with the majority of the other who have posted, if this club does not meet your needs, maybe it's time to move onto a new club. I once belonged to a local club where everything went, when it came to prototypes and eras. OK, I can accept that because different people in the club are interested in different eras. Some members were interested in steam, some interested in first generation diesel, some were interested in second generation diesel and so on. The problem for me was, when creating a town or industry, what era should the building reflect? Since it was a club that followed Roberts Rules the question went up for a vote. OK, I can live with that as everybody is paying their dues, entitled to an opinion, with the majority vote winning. The final straw for me was when the majority stated they did not want to complete the layout, because new members would not be able to experience every aspect of layout construction, in essence the layout would never be completed. At that point, coupled with the fact that I was the only member in the club interested in prototype operations, I moved on an never looked back. A few years ago, I was approached by a member of that club and was asked to return, I said NO.
     
  9. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'm the Treasurer of my club.

    I agree with the notion that if the club isn't meeting your needs, you may need to consider a new club.

    On the other hand, if it's one member, then the rest of you need to put your foot down.

    Our club actually had a different problem before I joined. They initially had an old modular layout. They tried to go Digitrax and keep analog I don't know if it was one loop DCC, one loop Analog or just a DPDT toggle to switch between, but in either case. It did not work out. Partially, because digitrax is a bear and partially, because the wiring wasn't in good shape to begin with.

    Some newer members came in a few years later that had more knowledge of wiring, and a connection to MRC. They pushed through demolishing the modules and just building a layout from the ground up for DCC. The problem was, many of the old members enjoyed running their old engines which had way more sweat equity involved then some young guy who just went out and bought an expensive RTR thing. So the old members just quit in disgust. More than halved the membership. Not pretty and not necessary.

    I've fussed in the past about this club that there are now some of us that see the MR in question as not meeting needs. It was designed by a Lioneller from a plan from the 1950s. It breaks all sorts of rules for modern layout design...which is especially problematic since we are open to the public and it wasn't designed with public viewing AT ALL!

    But even though the original designers are gone, current membership. Largely older and stubborn are uninterested in starting over or making significant changes even though the layout clearly struggles to meet the needs of the club.

    Alas. Thankfully, not bad enough to push me out, but still. As for run nights. I personally refused to join a club that restricted running to certain times. We offer 24/7 access to the clubhouse. There are some restrictions on what you can do during "open house" hours just to be accommodating to everyone during those times and if we announce and operating session, you will not be allowed to run outside of operations, but if you want to come in at 3am and run your trains, we're all for it.
     
  10. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Boy you just can't mention the letters D, C, and C without causing a ruckus around here.

    I have an old train book with a model railroad run on wind up. The engineers would know exactly how much to wind a loco for x number of cars to go from point a to point b and stop. I found the whole idea of doing that kind of fascinating. We sometimes forget that before the new tech was the old tech and people seemed to have plenty of fun.

    I am still on the fence with DCC. It's a real time and money investment to get going. Yes I have a control system too. I just am not sure what I prefer yet.

    Yoho, your story is interesting. I'd be pretty sad if my club tore out a layout I had grown used to because somebody felt it wasn't good enough, and then to wait for a new layout that you cannot even run your stock on. I'd be out the door myself.
     
  11. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

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    J911,
    I went through similar pains trying to find a club that fit what I was looking for. I made a list of what I wanted, looked around and found some guys doing what I wanted to do. I'll PM you with what I found, as I think it might be something worth you looking into.
    Karl
     
  12. montanan

    montanan TrainBoard Member

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    I have a turntable that is powered by an old player piano motor. If this motor dies, I have already figured out to replace it with a windshield wiper motor. Keep it simple, and cheap.
     
  13. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Repurposed stuff is all over. I liked the player piano re-used motor idea. The out door HO scale crowd has gone to using automatic car lock solenoids on their layouts. They even use DCC to control the switches.

    http://www.oogardenrailway.co.uk/gallery/image.php?album_id=37&image_id=2927

    http://www.oogardenrailway.co.uk/gallery/image.php?album_id=37&image_id=2932

    It think used car lock solenoids may be cheaper than over the counter products for switches, and surely more durable.

    My layout benchwork is made entirely from lumber found in or next to the trash. All free.
     
  14. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    People these days throw away some amazing stuff. :(
     
  15. J911

    J911 TrainBoard Member

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    I have nothing against repurposing stuff. But what mainly has to be looked at is the future of modeling. Most of the young crowd is choosing DCC its more affordable now than in the past and most engines being produced now are dual dc/dcc 20 years from now dcc will be very common. 30 years who knows there might be a new technology produced. Whats important is to keep the blood flow young in a club if you want it to survive. Nobody can cheat death.
     
  16. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    he he we've been derailing your discussion on and off throughout.

    DCC is cheaper than it used to be, but it is not cheaper.

    I am all for DCC. I think it shows it's usefulness best on a small layout, where you can move two engines on the same track and often are forced to. At the same time, I would say that DCC adds cost and effort. If you have a collection of locos and they are all vintage stuff that cannot be found easily these days it's gonna cost you a lot in time/money.

    If I was starting all over I'd only get DCC ready or equipped. But my HO collection is all stuff that if I were to upgrade it, the individual locos would cost almost 300.00$ each as I do european prototype on my current layout. here is a sample link to a non DCC european loco: http://www.tee-usa.com/store/product35944.html

    The price is daunting. For that money I could fly on a trip to a nice vacation. :)

    On my N scale layout, I sold all my non DCC ready locos and went for split frame diesels on all of it, it just made for newer more reliable locos with simple wiring.

    But back to your club issue. If the club isn't doing what you want to do. If there are others like you. Do a new project like a modular set up to show off how cool it is. Or start or join a different club.

    I would say that a small club is where it's at anyway. Each person has more input. It's more about a close group of friends than a mass of people ruled by those who have the desire to rule. So make your own club and make your own layout.
     
  17. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    I don't think it will be 30 years. There are inroads on the current "fad" already. I've had some of those "dual dc/dcc" locos....and I gutted the decoder and pitched it after one test run. Created an 8 volt starting voltage on dc. Absolute stupidity.
    Tell me....what kind of attitude will you exhibit when the club you helped form has it's dcc system overtaken by straight r/c or some such in 5, 10, whatever years?
    We going to have youngsters come onto a forum and complain about you as the "one person" blocking their new ideology?

    What makes you think there is a future to model railroading, anyway?
    Might just be when Windoze 9 comes out with optical hoods and TrainSim, we can do it all without ever having to lay any track...or own any equipment to run on the track.
    You'll buy add-ons to the app, populate your towns, add telephone poles, and for an added cost pigeons on the poles.

    Most of the "young crowd" is choosing dcc as they haven't any clue whatsoever. Why bother to actually learn how to take a non-dcc-ready loco and convert it...when you can buy ready-to-run (what fun) locos with dcc or at least plug-and-pray, which elicits comments of "how do I get the shell off?"

    Manufacturers, magazines and websites pander to the lowest common denominator, the hobby hasn't long to live.

    Most of the "younger crowd" can't take anything apart, much less fix it and put it back together again. Just look at the on-line forums...all scales.
    Personally, I think you should build a loco kit.....steam....full valve gear....Varney, PennLine, Bowser...all the rivets, worm spacing, insulation....to have the experience...but, no, folks don't want to do that anymore.
    Shake the Box....errrrr.....Blue Box even went away...yeah, the PRC wanted too much money for kits....right.....probably all the "younger crowd" who wants instant gratification....who knows......
     
  18. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Every time I post something, someone else has responded... I was thinking the same thing ScaleCraft. Remember when learning to build things started with just learning how to take things apart? I bet kids these days would get a kick out of taking something apart with screw drivers and not bothering to put it together. It's like dissecting technology. :)

    Boy I sure did have a blast ruining a lot of stuff as a kid. But I learned a lot.
     
  19. J911

    J911 TrainBoard Member

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    LOL when if the rc thing happens. I'm going to have a great attitude and encourage and learn. I will not insult someones work ethic in a crowded room of my peers and add any insult to such person. That's whats been so unnerving is the fact that certain people can't just accept the majority and must go straight to personal insults. I dunno if it's an elementary school mentality or just human nature.lol.
     
  20. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    My future layout will be controlled by my brain waves. It will be made with plastics that have a memory that can be altered by small electrical pulses, even my trees will sway in the imaginary wind. I will be using the new Mini People technology so that all my figures are animated and walk around and pull uncoupling levers for me. In fact only my engineer will be DCC, as he will need to operate the tiny controls inside the loco. :p
     

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