Hey guys, finally getting back into model railroading after about a 20 year hiatus. Going with Z scale! I'm building a Noch Cortina as a Euro-Japan hybrid (basically gonna run and scenic with whatever I think looks cool ), but that is sorta stuck in limbo til the layout base and my controllers get delivered. Using Rokuhan track and controllers on it. Have already got the track in and one of the Rokuhan Type 500s. Getting to the questions: 1. Does anyone have a picture of the underside of the Noch layouts? Planning on doing my own benchwork out of aluminum extrusion and want to know how theirs attaches to the layout. 2. Do Tenshodo and Rokuhan equipment couple fine without any modifications? I know Marklin's on it's own coupler, but just want to make sure the Arnold couplers are the same size. 3. Is there any handy way to find out min turn radius for any given equipment? With the Noch pre-formed I'm forced with 145s in a few spots, which apparently eliminates a lot of AZL's engines for sure (I really wanted an SD70 but not if it's only running the outer loop, too expensive for that). But I'm looking at the Marklin 8133 for one, not sure if it can handle the turns. 4. Pretty sure I'm going to do the extensions, anyone ever built the track plan that they give? Finding pictures has been a pain. 5. I got the Vollmer station that Noch specifies (49510). It's got some paper parts in it, like signs and what I think are supposed to be drapes inside the windows...What do I use for attaching the signs to the plastic parts? Super glue? White glue/PVA? I cannot wait for this stuff to be delivered so I can get back into this! And as soon as Rokuhan releases their C57 I'm getting it and a bunch of freight cars!
Ha, thanks! I've been sitting on pins and needles for about 3 weeks now waiting on these last 2 boxes from Germany and Japan.
Rokuhan locos run very well. They are the least finicky of my fleet which includes AZL, MT and Rokuhan. I have not had experience with Tenshodo, but have seen good reviews. Rokuhan will run all the way down to 95 mm according to the factory website. I rave run an AZL RDC reliably on 170 mm, so you might be able to get shorter models on 145mm. White glue would be good for your signs. Good luck Trey
Congrats on getting a Noch preform. Quite an amazing product. 1. What do you mean by benchwork? They use a 1"x1" wood frame around the entire layout and one extra 1"x1" wood support straight down the middle of the layout at 19.5" (layout length is 39". If you're adding some alu frame to the layout, you can fasten it securely to the 1x1 wood frame. I will take a photo tonight of the underside as I have 3 Cortinas in stock at the moment, 2 on which I am setting Rokuhan tracks. 2. Rob Kluz is the guy to ask on the Tenshodo/Rokuhan compatibility. On the surface, Arnold is Arnold, so they should work together nicely. 3. Not that I know of, but Noch mentions on R145s you should stick to Bo-Bo type (2-wheel trucks). I have run SD70's but not very smoothly on R145s. 4. I have pics on my site, but not finished: 84320 (right) http://zscalehobo.com/website/noch/84320.html 85340 (front) http://zscalehobo.com/website/noch/85340.html 84350 (left) http://zscalehobo.com/website/noch/84350.html A couple of my customers have their Cortina/Traunstein layouts on Facebook under either z scale enthusiasts or z scale scandinavia. Both show the extensions. It is hard to find pictures, but the plan is on Noch's website. In addition to an English track plan for Cortina, I have recently added an English track plan using Rokuhan track for the extensions to my offerings. 5. For attaching paper signs, just use small amounts of white glue or even a glue stick. And the drapes should be in a foldable insert that goes inside the building and also doubles as a light block at the seams of the building (comes into play when you're using interior lighting). Regards, Frank Daniels z.scale.hobo Irvine, California USA
1. I mean the frame deal that they sell for it. I'm no stranger to tools so I don't mind buying the aluminum and making it myself (and maybe tweaking their design a bit with extra panels and such), I was just curious how it actually attached to the layout, as if it were undersized and the layout just sat on top, or if it was bigger than the layout and screwed into the sides, brackets underneath, etc. Their site has some terrible pictures in some places that are no help at all. 2. Kinda what I was thinking too. Was just going to risk it on a few freight cars so not a huge loss if it doesn't work anyway. 3. Thanks! 4. Yeah, I saw those. Track plans just mean a bit more when you can eyeball the finished version. I'll check those facebook groups. 5. Excellent, thanks!
I can vouch for Rokuhan running down to R95 curves. My layout is only 10.5" deep and has R95 curves giving me a long loop. All of my Rokuhan locos work great on these tiny curves. I will note that it looks like the newest steam Loco from Rokuhan (C57) requires R145 curves from this news article: http://www.rokuhan.com/english/news/2016/12/2017.html The C57 steam looks awesome, though! My C11 steam handles R95 curves no problem. But the C57 is much longer, so I guess it is to be expected that it cannot handle something that tight, especially as a steam engine.
Yeah, as soon as that C57 clicks over to available at Hobby Search it will be on order. Don't wanna preorder because it will split my shipping.
I'd get the Tenshodo D51 but I think I saw someone say it had issues on 195. Again, a lot of money for a train that can't go through the best part of the layout.
The D51s are sold out and no longer in production. We stock the C62s and these are still available. There are no problems running them on 195mm track. Why are you going through Hobby Search? We are the North American distributor for Rokuhan and Tenshodo. We are also the distributor for AZL, Full Throttle and Father Nature. My company stock the full Rokuhan line and support an extensive dealer network include Z.Scale.Hobo who responded earlier. We have the C57s on order and will be receiving them as soon as they are released. In addition, we have the full line of Rokuhan locos in stock. You can purchase them direct or through any of dealers. Trust me when I say you will get better support from those of us in the US versus any company in Japan you are dealing with. I think this thread is an example of that. I am not trying to put you on the spot here. But just wanted to emphasize you don't need to go abroad when you have us. And we are Z scalers, not just stores. Rob
Since you asked: 1. You don't have a listing or price yet on your site for the C57. Much easier to plan for what I can actually see. 2. I research before every order. To use Z Scale Hobo as an example (the other ztrack sites I've looked at don't tend to be much different pricewise), he has the type 500 3-car set (Plain, not EVA) for about $235 shipped. It cost me $153 with express shipping from Hobby Search. When you guys are in the price ballpark, I will buy from you. I ordered my Cortina track pack through a hobby shop on Amazon because while their price was competitive to yours, the shipping was free versus the $35 your network was quoting. I just received a Rokuhan bridge from ZSH because my local hobby shop got backordered on the Marklin one. I don't mind paying a little more for local, but I'm not so rich as to where I can just be stupid about it. 3. Availability factors too. I mentioned the Tenshodo stuff, only Z Track Center appears to list it out of the US sites I've hit. I expect to order at least some of my freight cars from there, but I won't be going too hog wild because $15 shipping for things that fit in a small flat rate without blinking is a bit excessive.
Grindar: First, thanks for buying a bridge from me, glad I could at least be a desperation option for you! Heh heh heh. Yeah, it could be that Noch keeps their product images vague on the Aluminum Framing System to avoid DIY'ers like you from copying the design. I feel this is a good time to address my website's shipping prices. While I agree I cannot compete on the Shinkansen set pricing, my "total with shipping" for any items on my website (not eBay, mind you) are rarely accurate nor final when you check out and pay. I have so many "surgical strike" customers that come in and buy one-item-and-done orders. My competitors adjust for this by using tiered shipping price schemes to influence you to order more, or they have a higher bottom flat starting shipping rate. So, what I have done is that I have an economical shipping rate if you buy one item. But, as you add more items to the cart, my site does not know how to combine since I do a lot of box adjustments at the shipping end. I also manually decide between multiple carriers to save my customers money. Not using any fancy software, just jumping back and forth between the on-line shipping stations to find you the best shipping rate. Less money spent on shipping is more money for customers to spend on products. Summary of this is that once you check out and pay, I pack the item, weight it, then find the lowest shipping rate and add a small amount to pay for my 200lb tested boxes and packing material. I then refund the excess back to your payment source. All done within 24-48 hours after your order. Check out my shipping policy here with a jpg image of a sample cart and what happened on that order: http://zscalehobo.com/shipping.html I think the lack of a smart shipping calculator is losing me a lot of business, but I cannot find any other way to better do what I do aside from doing what my competitors do which leads to complaints like yours about "$15 for a SFRB shipment." As for buying out of the regional network, I fear that many people will get something that won't work, ask for help from their regional representatives, won't get much help since they didn't feed the network, then end up leaving the scale saying that it is problematic. When you support your regional network, you give us more incentive to help when things go wrong since we know it is authentic and not from some unknown source. (steps off soapbox) Sincerely, Frank Daniels owner - z.scale.hobo Irvine, California USA
I mean even the layout forms and extensions have terrible pictures. Cortina and Baden-baden are about the only Z scale ones you can see with track on them. You can't even see what the "Storage yard" looks like or even a suggested track plan. Don't believe I'll be paying their prices for a plain piece of plywood Yeah, your shipping wasn't as bad as the Z Track branded sites I looked at. On that Type 500 it was $10ish, which is within reason considering it's wider and longer than a SFRB. The sticking point there was the price...I'm not doing a 50% markup just to stay local or even regional. 20% is about my cap, and on track and bridges and stuff you're close enough, so if I do the extensions you will likely get a pretty good piece of those orders. And it might be different had I not been doing business with Hobby Search for years on stuff like Gunpla, but they've established themselves as a reliable enough retailer to me over the years, even having helped me get a set of missing decals for a Macross model ordered through there and sending them at their expense.
I can't argue about the price. The fact is that the home markets always have an advantage. That is why AZL products are less expensive in the US than abroad. If it is a matter of price alone, fine, but there is often more to it than pricing. As for shipping, we ship all products priority mail with insurance. We protect ourselves and our customers by doing this. There is too much fraud in the marketplace today not to protect the business. I responded as I did because many customers don't do their research and realize there are other options then purchasing offshore. But there is another side. I have watched dealer after dealer go out of business as everyone is rushing to the cheapest price. I personally watched a good friend of mine loose his business. He was the first to offer a helping hand. He had a steady stream of customers walk through his door and view is products. But they did not buy from him. They took advantage of him to the point they would even return damaged item to him that they purchases elsewhere knowing by his agreement with the manufacturer, he had to take care of the warranty. He couldn't survive that kind of customer base. In this thread alone, you are dealing with me, the Rokuhan representative in North American. You are also dealing with one of Z scales key dealers, and the most knowledgeable expert on Noch's preformed layouts. We are here to help those in Z. We love the scale and want to see it grow and prosper. But knowing that those who try to help will walk away from you to competitors is difficult. Especially when that competitor can't give you the level of service and support that you have come to this forum for. As the representative for Rokuhan, I fully support the line including any service and warranty issues that may arise. I am happy to do it. But I do have a policy of only servicing products that were purchased through Ztrack directly or through my authorized dealer network. This may sound callous, but I won't let history repeat what has happened with so many other dealers. Z scale in the United States is a community. We are working together and support each other. To me this is worth more than a few dollars in savings. Yes on a soap box here. But it is something I believe strongly in. No hard feeling here. I am just happy you are in Z. It is a great scale with wonderful products. You are going to have a lot of fun. I am available directly if you or anyone else wants to continue the conversation offline. My email is rob@ztrack.com. I am completely transparent and will share what I can and help where I am able. Rob
Rob & Frank, With full respect and honest curiosity, I ask the following question. I mean no hostility at all; I have ordered various items from both of you gentlemen and subscribe to ZTrack magazine. Like Grindar has mentioned, Rokuhan track, accessories, and structures sold in the USA very closely match the prices you would get when purchasing outside the USA (ordering directly from Japan). Yet your locomotives and most rolling stock are marked up significantly. Why are track pieces, accessories, and structures not really marked up at all, it seems? I can relate to Grindar's price concern, especially when we're talking a markup of sometimes around 30%-40% for Rokuhan locomotives. As a consumer, when you have a family and only allow yourself a bit of hobby money per month, that can get hard to justify, even though I think we all truly want to support USA merchants as much as we can afford. I partly say this so Grindar doesn't feel ganged up on. He is not alone.
@raganim: Rob is the USA distributor. z.scale.hobo is a USA-based dealer and as such, I have to price according to his distribution model. That being said, I do have several Rokuhan Nihon-prototype locomotives, passenger cars and T005 freight sets up at the auction site for "better than Japan" prices. The sound of crickets are echoing around those listings. Really quick, though, you guys should be so lucky to live in a price competitive market. Check the prices at Noch's special Rokuhan website www.rokuhan.de ... Their distribution route is much more costly. @Grindar: Back to the Noch layouts. Here's a shot from my customer of a Noch 84810 Traunstein (at left in the photo) with Front (84340, at right in the photo) and Right Hand (84320, at top in the photo) extensions. This customer is using my newly created Rokuhan track plan (in English) for the 84320/84340/ 84350 extensions. For these extension layouts, Noch has yet to produce a Rokuhan track plan (nor any English plans) ... so I went ahead and did it for my customers:
That's looking good. It helps being able to just see the track on the actual layout. I did the conversion on the track plan myself, wasn't too bad. They use a lot of adjustable track, though, and it's on the pricy side. I even figured out the 108.6mm track, I'm just wondering on the 112s if it's close enough to fudge in 110s or if those need to be 110-120 adjustables too.
There are three primary factors. First the pricing guidelines are set by Rokuhan. We can't control that. The exchange rate fluctuations and shipping costs all also factor into the price here in the US. I chucked when I hear about the $35.00 shipping from Japan to the US. My last order from Rokuhan cost me $1,400.00 in shipping. This was not even a pallet of merchandise. As the cost of the item goes up, you will see greater deviations in the price. But again, this is no different than the AZL products that sell in Europe. It is 30-40% more expensive to buy an AZL item in Germany then the US. And has Frank pointed out, look at the Rokuhan prices in Germany. They are very much higher than what we sell to customers. This is international trade at it's finest. No politics here, just the facts. Ztrack has made a substantial financial outlay to stock and supply Rokuhan products. We are committed to the line and supporting our customers and dealers. We have an established relationship with Rokuhan and receive monthly orders including automatic shipment of new items. Again when you purchase from Ztrack or our dealers, you are buying from folks who care and support the line and their customers. Rob
This is a good question. I shipped my customer a ton of R031's and am prepared to take the ones back he didn't need and supply him with a refund for the difference with R036's or R001's in the place of the adjustables.
