Speaker Question

ynono Feb 14, 2017

  1. ynono

    ynono TrainBoard Member

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    I have a question for you speaker gurus.

    This is for a KATO GS-4 project I'm working on.

    Between these two, The SoundTraxx 1/2 inch speaker and baffle or the SoundTraxx mini cube oval
    speaker /baffle (16mm x 12mm x 11.25mm). Or better speakers of similar size.

    I'm trying to minimize modifying the inside of the tender too much.

    Thanks in advance for all of your help.

    Bob C.
     
  2. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Far better than the Soundtraxx options:

    Streamlined Backshops 11x15mm sugar cube with baffle. Make sure you assemble the speaker to the enclosure correctly (e.g., with CA cement to create an airtight bond). You might have to do a little filing to the corners of the enclosure to get the speaker to fit well.

    http://store.sbs4dcc.com/SBS4DCCSugarCubeSpeaker11x15mm8ohm1wattw/SoundChamber.aspx

    If it fits the space better, the 9x16mm has about the same performance as the 11x15:

    http://store.sbs4dcc.com/SBS4DCCSugarCubeSpeaker9x16mm8ohm.7wattw/SoundChamber.aspx

    Finally, if it will fit, the 13x18mm would be even better that either of the above:

    http://store.sbs4dcc.com/SBS4DCCSugarCubeSpeaker13x18mm8ohm1wattw/SoundChamber.aspx

    Don't know how much depth you have to work with, but all of the above speakers are also available with a "double deep" enclosure, that will make them sound even better. But even with the standard enclosure, any of these is light-years better than the Soundtraxx options (I used these very Soundtraxx speakers before I discovered the "sugar cube" types, so I have some hands-on reasons for my opinions).

    John C.
     
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  3. ynono

    ynono TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, John I knew you would know... I've watched all of your YouTube videos several times in the last couple of days and I just got overloaded
    with all the information if you know what I mean.
    Nothing wrong with your videos in fact they were the best comparisons of all of the, or a lot of the small speakers out there. Very well done with
    precise information.

    I'll get one of each of the first two speakers you listed with the double deep enclosure.

    Thanks

    Bob C.

    I just did some measurements, Should've done that first before I did this post but instead
    I will get one each of the 13x18mm & the 11x15mm and see which fits the best.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  4. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    If I remember correctly, I put a 13x18mm in my GS4 (with the sound decoder behind it) without any tender mods. But it's been a couple of years since I did that, so I could be hallucinating. :)

    John C.
     
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  5. woodone

    woodone TrainBoard Member

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    You will have to remove the two injection stand offs from the inside of the tender no mater which speaker you use.
    I have used the 1/2 round from Soundraxx with an enclosure and had good sound- the 9 X 16 with an enclosure works just as well.
    Which decoder are you using? The LokSound can use two 8 ohm speakers hooked up in parallel and give you a 4 OHM load which the LokSound likes.
     
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  6. ynono

    ynono TrainBoard Member

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    I agree in fact I've already remove those in anticipation. What I'm trying to avoid is removing too much of the weight. By going with the 13 x 18 mm speaker and the double size chamber I will have to remove about 10 mm of the weight I think? I will see in the next few days win I get the speakers in.

    I'm thinking on using the SoundTraxx Econami decoder.?!

    With that said I've also been leaning towards the LokSound decoder too. I'm just not sure if I need all the extra horsepower that the LokSound decoder
    offers or the Tsunami 2 for that matter.

    The biggest thing I'm after is sound quality and that's really going to depend on the speaker.
    Now if we were talking Diesels the LokSound seems like they have better sound recordings.

    Bob C.
     
  7. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Bob.

    One thing you might consider:

    LokSound is about to release a bunch of new steam sound files with a version of the "full throttle" feature found in their diesel files (it works a bit differently, but the idea is to pump up the sound of chuffs to simulate pulling a heavy train). These new steam files all come from new recordings Matt Hermann did over the past year. I think one of those recordings was of Milwaukee 251 (Not sure I got the number right), which is a classic super-power steam loco. He also did UP 844 and others.

    You can find a little information on this here (look at page 5):

    http://www.esu.eu/fileadmin/downloa...roduct-Highlights_2017_ESU-LLC-Small-file.pdf

    I have found that matching the chuffs to driver rotation is more precise with LokSound than with the Econami (which I tried in one of my Kato Mikes). I've always thought that Soundtraxx had better overall steam sound files; but with these new files, LokSound might catch up. If it were me, I'd probably go with LokSound, anticipating that the new sound files will be very, very good.

    John C.
     
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  8. woodone

    woodone TrainBoard Member

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    No need to remove any weight- there is plenty of room for the decoder and a speaker and if you use the SoundTraxx decoders you will have room for the capacitor too.
     
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  9. ynono

    ynono TrainBoard Member

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    Hi everyone,

    If I use the 11x15mm speaker no weight needs removing. But if I use the 13x18mm speaker I'll need to remove about 6mm of the weight.
    I want to use the 13x18mm speaker. I'm assuming ( that word ) BIGGER is better.
    The space behind the 13x18 speaker is for the back up light.

    IMG_0627.JPG IMG_0625.JPG IMG_0624.JPG IMG_0623.JPG IMG_0622.JPG
     
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  10. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Yep, general rule of thumb is that bigger is better. But you also need weight in the tender to insure good electrical pickup. I don't think removing 6mm will make all that much difference in this case, though.

    John C.
     
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  11. ynono

    ynono TrainBoard Member

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    Hi John
    I mounted the speakers to the chambers and tested them out on another sound decoder I have (diesel) they both sound really good 10 times better than the speaker that's installed in the locomotive.
    I see a new project on the horizon.

    I removed about 6 mm of the weight and set the speaker in place and then put the weight that I cut off on top of the original right in front of the speaker (see picture).

    The black line represents 30 mm from the front edge of the weight so looks like I'm going to have plenty of room for the capacitor and the decoder and wires.
    Now I just need to make the decision on which decoder to purchase I'm torn between the two tsunami's and the lokSound. Big difference is in price too if I go with the cheapest one I found the tsunami econami decoder for $63.95 each, LokSound about$85, and the other tsunami (the 2) at 103.95.
    The biggest thing for me is the sound (they all have the lighting effects I need) and once everything is set up I'll probably leave it alone and never
    mess with it. unless I have to.?

    What do you guys suggest for mounting the speaker in the tender, superglue or some kind of cocking?

    One thing I noticed is the speaker enclosure sure vibrates a lot from the sound. Looks like some experimentation is in order.

    Thanks a lot John you've been a great help.

    Bob C.


    IMG_0628.JPG IMG_0630.JPG IMG_0631.JPG
     
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  12. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    I would go with the LokSound decoder, and hope Matt gets a chance to record 4449 once all the servicing is completed. Then you can download the correct sounds for the GS4 when available. In the meantime, the ESU steam collection is fine. I agree, the Tsunami sound is better, but...

    Use CA to hold the speaker in place
     
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  13. Mike C

    Mike C TrainBoard Member

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    Well I have both the Econami's and the Tsunami 2's . They are pretty much the same EXCEPT for the reverb feature in the T2 . The T2 also has a lot more choices in the whistle dept too. The reverb makes a great difference in the sound quality , especially for the whistle . I don't have any Loksound decoders , but John has already said that the Tsunami's have a better steam sound . They are a bit more expensive , but I'll only buy the Tsunami 2 from now on .....Mike
     
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  14. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Nice.

    Superglue (Gel CA) to mount the speaker enclosure to the tender bottom. Sand both the tender bottom where you are going to glue the speaker and the speaker enclosure bottom just a tad so that the glue sticks. Once it's glued, it won't vibrate as much.

    As for decoders - I probably would not use the Econami in this install because it's sound is inferior to the Tsunami 2, and it's chuff-matching capability is inferior to the LokSound. Though I believe the TSU-2 has better sound for a super-power steam loco TODAY, I suspect this is going to change in the next 30 days when Matt Hermann finishes the new steam files. And as Rick pointed out, Matt might end up recording the actual locomotive (I'm trying to get him to record NKP 765, too!). It might be a year from now, but I think eventually you'll have a sound file with the real engine sounds.

    So I'd probably go with the Lok, but either the Lok or TSU-2 would be fine. If you wanted the best sound possible right now, it would be the TSU-2. If you're willing to go with "really good but maybe not great" sound right now and have your engine decoder reprogrammed when the new files come out (anyone with a LokProgrammer can do this for you; I suspect you don't live near central Illinois, but if you do, I can do it for you), I'd do the ESU.

    John C.
     
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  15. ynono

    ynono TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks John,

    I like the idea of sound from the real thing. This can go on for ever but I will go with the LokSound.
    Looking at the sound files it looks like I should have them initially load file 73814.
    What's file 73817??
    Thanks.

    Bob C.
     
  16. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    73814 is the one I've used.

    If you want to compare sounds, here is a video of one of my Berks with an ESU LokSound and file #73814:



    And here is a video of my UP FEF which has a Tsunami (first generation, not second generation, but it will give you a general idea of the "Tsunami sound."



    John C.
     
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