Is the Kato U.P. FEF-3 the holy grail of N scale steamers?

tiffany nw-2 Feb 4, 2016

  1. RedRiverRR4433

    RedRiverRR4433 TrainBoard Member

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    A TCS decoder for the Kato FEF will give you a creep tie by tie. The TCS decoder required no adjustments and one of my three Kato FEF's works beautifully with this decoder. The other two Kato FEF's have ESU lok Sound decoders installed and the result is the same. Each of the two Kato FEF's creeps tie by tie with the Lok-Sound decoders installed as well.

    Have fun with it......:cool::cool:
     
  2. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    If the unit is starting off high, then it may still have one of the original TCS decoders that needed to be reprogrammed. This was a known goof by TCS, and there was an exchange process. Lots of data here on TB about this.
     
  3. sundowner

    sundowner TrainBoard Member

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    Mine works great in DCC since new and mine creep tie by tie , but I used a Digitrax decoder.
     
  4. rrjim1

    rrjim1 TrainBoard Member

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    Creeping tie by tie is not a great running loco, (holy grail). I have a couple new Bachmann steam locos that will do better than that!
     
  5. papahnash

    papahnash TrainBoard Member

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    Has anyone else had the problem of derailment of the pilot trucks? I have a sleight "S" bend that it doesn't like. I have no problem with the GS4, J class 4-8-4, USRA 2-10-2, 2-8-4 Berkshire, EM-1...
    Maybe I need to gauge them. I don't call that a great runner out of the box. It is currently back in the box.
     
  6. sundowner

    sundowner TrainBoard Member

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    Well it run great at higher speed too, so what your point.
     
  7. I'm relatively new to n scale. The layout I'm working on is a 4' x 12' folded dog bone with two mains running side by side. I am a Kato DCC loco enthusiast--I have about 20 of them. To date all but 4 locos (no decoders yet), with or without cars in tow, run in both directions at all speeds without issue.

    Then it happened, again, I couldn't resist the urge to own my first Kato steam locomotive--with sound. I pulled the trigger two weeks ago. When I received it I was impressed by Kato's locomotive and could not wait to put it on the rails.

    The straight portion of the main is about 8' long. I set the 844 on the outside main and turned on the NCE system. One speed step at a time it gracefully began to move forward. Then in reverse. Then the sounds. Testing stage one complete--it works, yes!!!. On two stage two.

    As the 844 began to move forward at a step speed 4 it looked awesome. First curve-done. Second-done. Across the middle-done. Third and fourth curves-done. What a great steam loco!

    Then it happened. Going around the folded portion of the run. It's about a 15* curve. The 844 derailed. Other locos with 12 cars in tow can go through it at step speed 120 in both directions. The 844, after 6 attempts, can't get through what amounts to a 6-8" section of rail. Wait, what???

    After a careful rookie inspection, I have come to agree with post above-tolerance is low. Very,very low. The flanges on the front are smaller. The front truck is very loose. Too loose considering how much of the loco's body (1" or so) sits over a loose truck with shallow flanged wheels. This design has revealed that my track laying skills did not quite meet the standards needed to run the 844 the way it was intended.

    As of this writing, the 844 is in the box and on the shelf. I've reverted back to running the diesels at top speed to help me get through the sorrowful stage of shelving such a great looking piece of Kato technology.

    By the way, if you have the 844 and it runs like it should--that is awesome and I envy you....if you can offer any help to this grieving n-scale 844 owner....I would be forever grateful.
     
  8. papahnash

    papahnash TrainBoard Member

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    I feel your pain, I had the same problem worse yet it was running on Kato Unitrack.
     
  9. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    The 844 shouldn't derail on a 15" curve. Mine will take a 12" curve just fine. So here's what I would check. First, check the gauge of the track, all the way through the area where you are experiencing the derailment (the entire 6-8"). It is not uncommon for track sections to have a "tight" gauge, particularly curves, and this could be causing your problem. After checking the track gauge, check the wheel gauge; again it is not uncommon for wheel gauge to be slightly off. I would suspect your track has an issue. Here's what I think: I suspect your track gauge at the area where the engine is derailing is slightly tight and the Kato's wheel gauge may be just a hair "loose" - not "out of gauge" but at the wide end of the tolerance, rather than the narrow end. Put these two things together, and you end up with a derailment. And why don't you see this on your diesels? My experience is that most diesels come from the factory with their wheel gauge tight - sometimes so much so that they really are out of gauge on the narrow side. Wheels that are narrow in gauge won't be affected by track that is also narrow in gauge. Plus, the diesel trucks have a much shorter wheel base than the 8 drivers on the FEF. So a diesel truck might just "bump" a tiny bit on a narrow-gauge section of track, and then it's over because the truck wheelbase is short. Do this same thing with an 8-coupled steam loco, however, and you get a derailment.

    Bottom line: check the gauge with an NMRA track gauge.

    John C.
     
  10. MartyAT&SF

    MartyAT&SF TrainBoard Member

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    I have several Kato FEF-3s, 844, 838 and one I lettered for my own fictional road, all have Loksound decoders I installed. I also have several Kato GS-4s but they are not part of this thread. There is one thing that you need to be careful of with Kato steam and that is the traction tires. Do not slide the engine along the track when there is no power, doing that will almost guarantee that the tires will come off. The minimum turning radius is not something I can address because I run them on the club layout and all mainline curves are broad, the yard ladders are #6 and #8 so there are no derailing issues. The engines run smooth and will pull a good train, I like the engines. Now if Kato would only do a Santa Fe steam engine. :)

    Marty
     
  11. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    For years, the manufacturers have advertised that their products would take sharp curves. When I was in this hobby in high school, I had HO. Several of the wiser modellers with years of experience schooled me on a few things. One thing on which they schooled me was what I could operate on what curves.

    For steam locomotives, it was:

    Sharp (twenty three inches or less): six or four wheel switchers, eight wheelers, moguls, Atlantics, prairies and nineteenth century ten wheelers.

    Conventional (twenty four to twenty nine inches: all of the above plus "modern" ten wheelers, consolidateds, mikados, Pacifics and you might get away with a Hudson.

    Broad: (thirty inches or better): almost anything, although the bigger it was, the more broad the curve should be.

    In N scale, those ranges work out to be 12,42; 12,96-15,66 and 16,2 inches.

    Thus, a 4-8-4 should run on a curve radius of at least 16,2 inches.

    I did read how one poster got his to go around a nine and three quarter (9,72 inches in N is eighteen inches in HO). He did it, but for others, here, it would not work. If you want something that size to operate well consistently, it is better to operate it on a curve of 16,2 inches or greater.
     
  12. SPsteam

    SPsteam TrainBoard Member

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    Although I applaud the 844, it isn't the holy grail. There are locos out there that are more difficult to find and perform just as well. For me, that loco is the Key 4-10-2. This loco performs as well as any kato out there and they are impossible to find. Just my 2 cents this year. In 10 years when they are well out of production and garner 450 bucks on the secondary market I will revise my opinion.
     
  13. MartyAT&SF

    MartyAT&SF TrainBoard Member

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    If we really want to get picky, the current Bachmann steamers are very good runners and are very good looking engines. N Scale is in very good shape today as far as steam is concerned. Bachman makes good running steam as does Intermountain and Athearn in addition to Kato.
     
  14. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    I like most of B-mann's offerings, these days.

    The smoothest of all of them is the first run LL Berkshire. Too bad it would not pull much. I have yet to see anything that smooth. I have seen the Athearn 4-8-4. It does run nicely, but not as smoothly as does that LL. I do not have the Walthers version of it, which I understand has traction tyres, so that addresses the pulling power problem. I do not know if it is as smooth as the LL version. I do not have the Athearn 4-8-4, either.

    Close, but placing, are the B-mann EM-1, the Model Power USRA light 2-8-2 and 2-6-0, with SPECTRUM tenders swapped in for the factory. This applies both to the MRC and original MP versions.

    Right on their heels, but behind the B-mann EM-1 are the MP USRA light 4-6-2 and 4-4-0. Again, this is with the SPECTRUM tender swapped in for the stock.

    The B-mann 4-6-0 and 2-6-0 are right on the heels of the show locomotives. If you are using DC, they run more smoothly with the decoder eliminated. I have fried several of the B-mann decoders on DC. This is not necessarily on pulsed and rectified DC. I do have several MRC 2400, which have On-OFF pulse switches.

    Notice that the Kato 2-8-2 and B-mann 2-8-0 are not even in the first four positions, any more. There was a time when those two were the yardsticks against which all N scale steam was measured. They are still good locomotives, make no mistake about it. Obviously they merit Honourable Mention.

    Time was when Athearn's nineteenth century offerings were the best out-of-the-box N scale steam. This was due to its being necessary to add the traction tyre driver and details to the Kato and the try-before-you-buy on the B-mann. Thus, the latter two needed work, while the former were ready to go, out-of-the-box and performed admirably. Again, the Athearn nineteenth century offerings are still good, and, again, certainly merit Honourbale Mention.

    Time was, as well, that I would buy almost any N scale steam offered, even if it was the big stuff. I much prefer the smaller to average sized steam.
    Because of the progress, I no longer buy every offering. The only big stuff that I would buy these days is road specific to the B&O or P&LE. Thus, I bought a B-mann EM-1. The biggest thing that P&LE had was the A-2a, a 2-8-4. That really was a 2-8-2 with a larger firebox, hence the four wheel trailing truck. In fact, I am surprised that one has not appeared in N scale, as it was ALCo's last US steam build.

    That better offerings have eclipsed those that we once considered excellent is testimony to the progress made in N scale steam.
     
  15. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    None of the LifeLike Berks, including the Walthers versions, have traction tires. You can improve the pulling power in various ways; I've made my own "traction tires" by applying thin double-sided tape to the #4 driver set.

    Bachmann's steam locos are still hit and miss. The K-4 is excellent, although the sound system leaves a lot to be desired. The Berkshire was poor to mediocre; I bought three; one was terrible, two were mediocre and after much work (inlcuding replacing the entire sound system), I have added them to my layout roster. I have two 4-6-0's. One runs nicely; the other slips - probably a gear mesh issue, but I don't have the time right now to take it apart and work on it. The EM-1 is terrific. The Model Power 2-8-2 is a revelation - it will pull like crazy, and with a tender swap runs wonderfully. I'll probably buy a few more and replace my Kato 2-8-2's, which run great but have pulling power issues, even with the traction tire driver added.

    The Athearn Challenger and Big Boy are both superb - lots of pulling power (as there should be given the weight and wheel arrangement) and nearly flawless performance; again, the sound system sucks, and I've replaced them both with ESU LokSounds and a custom speaker/enclosure.

    I didn't try the BLI M-1, but reports have been encouraging. BLI's next steam release will be the iconic Pennsy T-1, which I might buy just because it is so unique.

    Since I model 1957, I don't do much with small steam. I do have a couple of Bachmann Consolidations, again with the sound systems replaced by ESU LokSounds and custom speakers, that are excellent. But there are still big steam models missing from the N-scale steam lineup: a DM&IR Yellowstone (don't know why Bachmann doesn't do one of these based on the EM-1 chassis); a 2-10-4 (The C&O T-1 as a prototype; the Pennsy J-1 was a carbon copy, and other roads had 2-10-4's with some variations in boiler looks and driver diameter); a C&O Allegheny (if we have a Big Boy, why not an Allegheny?); the Virginian Triplex; and a host of variations on the 4-8-4 arrangement (where are the NYC Niagras?); and finally, the 4-6-4 Hudson. I'd buy at least one of each of these, because I'm a sucker for big steam, IF they performed anything like the Kato FEF, Bachmann EM-1, or Athearn Big-Boy and Challenger.

    John C.
     
  16. MartyAT&SF

    MartyAT&SF TrainBoard Member

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    If I were going to request a steam engine it would be a Santa Fe 3800 class 2-10-2 in N Scale, that has been on the top of my want list for a very long time. BLI has that in HO so miracles can happen.
     
  17. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Bachmann came out with one of those a few years ago in their Spectrum line. I put a LokSound Select Micro in it, and it is up there with my best performing steamers.

    You can sometimes find these available on eBay
     
  18. MartyAT&SF

    MartyAT&SF TrainBoard Member

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    Bachmann did come out with a 2-10-2 (I have three of them lettered for my private road) but it is not the same engine. It is a light 2-10-2 not a heavy 2-10-2. The only thing it has in common with the Santa Fe 3800 is the number of wheels. But that aside, i do agree that it is a great engine and will pull a long train and do so very smoothly. If you like steam, I do recommend it.

    Concor has a heavy 2-10-2 which can be made into a good runner with a little surgery on the electronics by removing some of the parts intended for European sale. Once that is done you won't believe it is the same engine. Out of the box it is a terrible runner. Takes just a couple minutes to fix it.
     
  19. Eugen Haenseler

    Eugen Haenseler TrainBoard Member

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    I have one GS4 from KATO
    It was stocked in the draver.
    Last week I was able to find one 10 car Set of the Day Light.
    When I tried to run this verry nice Trai the GS4 didn't run! ;o(
    All the plastic tubes on the Axels where cracked.
     
  20. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Bummer Eugen :(
     

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