MTL SW1500 Pre-Order G&W Taken Down

MakerModel Feb 28, 2017

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  1. MakerModel

    MakerModel New Member

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    So I was just going to place a pre-order for another G&W SW1500 and my Dealer laughed and said he is unable to process it because G&W railroad wont allow MTL to use their name. He said to call them. I did but it went to voicemail. This seemed very backward to me because I had already placed one pre-order so I know the loco is available. But then I went to MTLs website and they have them all listed except for the G&W paint scheme. Did MTL really foobie this big league and perform some copyright infringement or something or forget to get a license? Other makers have done G&W, so something happened. Does that mean I wont get any of these beauties, or we just cant order more? Did anyone else's loco pre-order get cancelled? I just have to think this is a miscommunication or something and a respected company like MTL would never try to do something unethical and release something without a license and get caught with their hand in the cookie jar....? Thanks for any help.

    Rich
     
  2. Tom L

    Tom L TrainBoard Member

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    N Scale supply shows them up for reservation with a note that they will not have the logo or number printed on them but will include decals. Interesting, not sure I've ever seen that before.

    Tom L
    Wellington CO
     
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  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Have there been other models made in N scale? I thought so, but maybe my memory is letting me down here.
     
  4. MakerModel

    MakerModel New Member

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    I think this was the plan all along. I get their MicroNewsletter and it showed this decal situation. But now it sounds like they're still taking preorders for some dealers, but not others (mine). And they're off the website.

    And I know Atlas and Intermountain have both made G&W N scale locos.
     
  5. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    slow down...
     
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  6. k-59

    k-59 TrainBoard Member

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    On a sidenote, I think the approach of having one G&W paint scheme and decals for a number of their railroads is innovative.
     
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  7. Tom L

    Tom L TrainBoard Member

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    For sure, very good idea

    Tom L
     
  8. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    "On another network" I read that Micro-Scale has immediately and permanently discontinued their decals in all scales for G&W railroads. I don't have this definitively but apparently G&W Industries either doesn't want models made any more or wants manufacturers to pay for the rights to do them. In other words, "meet my friends 'cease and desist.'"

    This is also apparently not like the situation when ExxonMobil told Micro-Scale they couldn't make any more Mobil decals. It read more like "you also have to destroy your existing stock too."

    So... if that's the case we will not be seeing any more GWI anything, from Micro-Trains or anyone else, at least for a while. I sense some coming entries in "eBay Humor."
     
  9. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Microscale doesn't say 'discontinued' but anything related to G&W - in all scales - is mysteriously 'out of stock'. So something is certainly going on.

    The only thing I can think of is that Mort Fuller, the originator of G&W, finally retired and there's high-level shakeups in the wheelhouse. Somebody new is now in charge of stuff like this, much like happened at UP, and hopefully gets to learn a similarly embarrassing and painful lesson. No money to be made licensing decals and short-lot small trains, lots of bad press and irritated customers that would normally support you, and you're all by yourself alone out there sticking it to the quality modelbuilders. This isn't Lego bricks.

    I suspect Joe and others are trying to explain to the new Vice President of Shortsightedness that this is a foolish decision, but if they want to orchestrate a public flogging via forums and facebook, just ask.

    It's rather ironic because if there was ever an organization that's chronically guilty of Corporate Image Abuse, it's G&W - the appallingly bad patch jobs over ex-Conrail, L&N, everybody else - around here you're lucky if half the units are in proper corporate livery.
     
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  10. railtwister

    railtwister TrainBoard Member

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    From what I have heard, the G&W has a horrible reputation for being anti-railfan and anti model railroader, they regularly have tried to take cameras away and have people arrested for trespass even when they are on public or non-railroad owned property. This is not new, they have been like this for many years.

    I was very unhappy when I heard they had taken over CIRR, a RR in SW Georgia that I had visited several times when they were still running the white Alco RS1's, Geeps, and SW1500's, and they were very friendly folks. I haven't been in the neighborhood since G&W took them over, but I fear they may no longer be very friendly.

    Bill in FtL
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  11. ArtinCA

    ArtinCA TrainBoard Member

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  12. kmcsjr

    kmcsjr TrainBoard Member

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    There are G&W decals on feepay, right now...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Ike the BN Freak

    Ike the BN Freak TrainBoard Member

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    Can't really stop the used market.
     
  14. kmcsjr

    kmcsjr TrainBoard Member

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    I was just pointing them out to anyone that might want them



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    The new general council of G&W is young, female, and has no railroad background.
    https://www.gwrr.com/about_us/corporate_officers_senior_executives

    The company isn't exactly known for being organized at the top anyway, at the local/regional level there's a lot of experience, but they have expanded so fast that it's hard for anyone to keep up.

    corpcomm@gwrr.com

    They have no corporate communications arm to speak of, press releases, or facebook presence.

    I'd suggest that's where comments should be made, and one of the most telling is that I think they are the ONLY railroad I can think of that has issued a 'cease and desist' rather than a licensing, permitting, or approval process.

    May also help to remind somebody that was probably in school when this happened how poorly this went for Union Pacific, made national news and pretty much a laughing stock of the company 13 years ago:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_model-train-union-pacific-model-railroaders

    I had forgotten that gem of a line on 'was this done to keep some corporate lawyer busy?'

    I knew the individual at UP that approved the program then, he was basically not a railroader, had no background, his boss wasn't paying any attention, and when it kind of hit the fan it was a huge embarrassment. Didn't entirely clear until he retired. That was just one of his epic decisions.
     
  16. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well, you can add Pan Am to the list... they also have hit a manufacture with such an order...
     
  17. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    It's a difficult environment to operate in...most of the roads in question have been done by all of us over the years and have never had problems. Usually new management decides they want to protect the brand (for good reason) and request a very minor license fee so you have some sort of binding contract in case you decide to model a car that is inappropriate with their logo. UP covers all their fallen flags and they allow us to weather, but not add graffiti...others just require some sort of contractual agreement as I noted above. G&W is really coming on strong with rail services all over the world so it figures at some point they would want to have a conversation with manufacturers. We are sorting through all of this, I think the impression levied at us on other forums that we were unprofessional or negligent in some way is unfortunate and incorrect. Up until a few years ago, none of the railroads required much in the way of licensing, UP started that trend I suspect...it's a new world out there and all of us are treading lightly.

    Joe
     
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  18. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    Joe, I find this shocking someone would accuse Micro-Trains of being unprofessional or negligent in the production of your locomotives and rolling stock. I would venture to say 80% of my rolling stock is Micro-Trains products. Your products are my first choice because of quality and craftsmanship. Yes it's a changing world and I imagine G&W at this point is just trying to protect their copyright as others have done in the past. Hopefully you will be able to work out some type of agreement with them that will work for both companies.

    For me the true downside is the end of the line for the SW1500's. It's just a shame you cannot find another supplier for SW1500 mechanisms at a reasonable price. The SW1500 is a popular switcher, the Micro-Trains SW1500 was the answer to a lot of modelers prayers and now it looks like it's the end of the line for this popular switcher?
     
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  19. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    It's quite understandable that the legal department would want to shield the corporation from possible misuse of their image.

    Unfortunate and incorrect, indeed. Can't quite imagine how anyone would have gained that impression.

    The recent trend toward licensing suggests that some bean counter decided to make it a profit center.
    From the viewpoint of consumers of model trains, it tends to be perceived as nothing more than an attempted money grab by the current holder of the trademark for the prototype railroad.
     
  20. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    When we first announced the issue with GW we got some really ugly hate mail. Some of it spilled over on a few forums who's names we cannot utter :) but that comes with the territory. I think when railroads first contact you and you start working out the licensing agreements they realize it costs them more to have their attorney contact us then they will get off a two year licence. LOL I think one of the more rewarding experiences we had was with Ringling Brothers. They really liked what we were doing and encouraged us to renew beyond what we may have considered going into it. You have to look at this stuff as not being personal or a money grab, but just business and across the board the marketing groups seem willing to let you advertise their railroads all day long and make it affordable.
     
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