I've had enough......

sd40 Mar 6, 2003

  1. sd40

    sd40 TrainBoard Member

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    Man, I have to warn you guys looks are decieving!!!! If you want to use microtrains wheel and coupler sets, don't think about buying atlas code 55 stuff. All I can say is it doesnt work as nice as it looks (thank god you go to a hobby shop and experiment with small amounts of it).

    Now that said, here's something to get you brain clickingand an interesting scenerio. I need to get alot of yard space for cars. I want you folks to design a yard for me, I'm all out of ideas.

    Minimal Capacity 60 Cars
    Double Ended
    Space: about 1.5 feet wide by 10 feet long at the most
    Add unique switching aspects to it: Hard to move around cars but not too hard:
    Please include what turnouts to use.
    -Just post the picture on this topic.

    Let's see what you got! Thanks.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. MarkJ

    MarkJ TrainBoard Member

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    SD40, you got me curious, what about the combination of MT wheels and Atlas code 55 track doesn’t work? :confused:

    Do the wheel flanges hit the tie plates? I ask because I am just about to start my layout and was considering Atlas code 55 track. By the way, I recently converted much of my rolling stock to MT truck sets with the low profile wheels. :D

    Don’t have any yard suggestions, but this is the right place to get help. [​IMG]
     
  3. rsn48

    rsn48 TrainBoard Member

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    There's no way I can do justice to my reply, except to direct you to John Armstrong's "Track Planning For Realistic Operations." The figure is called Space saving ladder arrangements" in the chapter called "filling in the details."

    There are three types of ladders, simple, compound and split. The split ladder is the most efficient of all three. You aren't going to get a lot of yard work in a double ended yard, consider a stub ended yard.
     
  4. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Reason for this is that the stock MT wheels are TOO BIG!!!!! The problem is not the Atlas code 55 track, which is designed to meet NMRA specs. The flanges on MT wheels are too deep, and will pick the tops of the "spikes." Both Atlas and MT offer low-profile wheels which you should use if you want to run the Atlas code 55 and have MT equipment.

    So the blame here goes to MT, not Atlas. And frankly, I'll by the wheelsets from Atlas, since MT skirted the spec for so long.
     
  5. jkristia

    jkristia TrainBoard Member

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    using MT low profile wheels works just fine with Atlas C55 (and looks better than the pizza cutters)

    Jesper
     
  6. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    sd40

    Here is a typical yard layout. To make it double ended simply fold a copy mirror image at the stub ends.

    If you are short of space, and are running 4 axel engines and freight cars, you could probably get away with #4 turnouts but try to use #6 if you can because the 6 axel engines and long passenger or long freight cars can be pushed through a #6 without derailing.

    There are other yard arrangements of course, so study this diagram and try to keep the "features" regardless of the actual shape you end up with.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Mark_Athay

    Mark_Athay TrainBoard Member

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    Watash,

    A general-purpose question regarding the yard.... The layout of the yard assumes the overall direction of traffic will be from right to left, or from left to right? You can tell I'm really "up" on yard design, right?

    I'm in the process of designing an around-the-room layout, in HO, with two tracks, a main-line long-haul track running around the outside, probably a twice-around track, and a short-haul local/industrial track running around the inside. I want to be able to stage longer trains as well as have all of my cars on the track without ever removing any. That assumes that I'll never buy any more? LOL!

    Mark in Utah
     
  8. sd40

    sd40 TrainBoard Member

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    The deal about microtrains trucks does makes since, there has always been a unrealistic aspect about it. Now what to do about the 80+ cars that already have micro trains trucks on them?? Should I sand the flanges down, buy low profile wheels which the old man says he really doesn't want to do? Another problem is that Atlas or Kato is to blame because Kato engines hit the tie plates too, but I havent tried the Atlas locos yet. I think what I might end up doing, though I like the look of atlas stuff, is going with micro engineering track and turnouts. SD40

    [ 06. March 2003, 16:09: Message edited by: sd40 ]
     
  9. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    The cost of ME track compared to Atlas probably is greater than re-equipping your MT trucks with low-profile wheels (you can buy packs of 100, that'll do 25 cars for you, and they aren't that expensive). From what I've heard, most Atlas and Kato engines run fine over the track. You may have to turn the flanges down a little (file and a dremel work good here).
     
  10. MarkJ

    MarkJ TrainBoard Member

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    Looks like I’ll be ok with my rolling stock because I just converted most of my cars to MT truck sets. Then, I bought a set of low profile wheels (MT #1008-B-48) and replaced the wheels on the MT trucks. Just a little concerned about Atlas and Kato locomotive wheel flanges hitting the spikes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but code 55 track is .055” high, so the flange width should be less than .055” or it will hit the spikes. That should be easy to measure with a micrometer. Not too crazy about “machining” the flanges on these locos. Does anyone make low profile wheels for Atlas or Kato locomotives?

    [ 06. March 2003, 19:02: Message edited by: MarkJ ]
     
  11. Hoss

    Hoss TrainBoard Member

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    Peco Code 55.... ;)
     
  12. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Except for those rivet-counters (like me in some cases [​IMG] ) who refuse to use Peco track since it is based on European style track, which is slightly different the North American. Also, Peco code 55 is simply code 80 raid sunk into the ties. It is not "true" code 55 like Atlas and ME.

    Correction: The rail IS .055 inches in height, BUT the tie plates are higher than the tops of the ties, so the depth will be LESS than .055 inches. Check the NMRA Website for the standards on flange depth. You will find the clearance on the Atlas track meets this.
     
  13. Hoss

    Hoss TrainBoard Member

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    The tie spacing might be slightly different, but when weathered and ballasted this track still looks great...not to mention that it's virtually bulletproof. It still LOOKS like Code 55 because it's sunk in the rails...and it's stronger and more durable than any of the Code 80 tracks.

    Unless you use Peco 55...in which case there are no spikes to interfere so you have the complete .055 inches of clearance. ;)
     
  14. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    No bumps to represent tie plates either? Yet ANOTHER reason not to use peco IM(not so humble)O. :D :D [​IMG]
     
  15. Hoss

    Hoss TrainBoard Member

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    Well...you win some, you lose some I suppose... ;)

    For what it's worth, I believe the plates are there, just not the spikes.

    [ 07. March 2003, 15:21: Message edited by: Hoss ]
     
  16. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Ah, well I'm not even sure if the Atlas C55 or ME C55 has the spikes either? Atlas C80 does not. But if the tie plates are there, the flangeway IS LESS than 0.055." The N scale standard flange depth (top of rail head to bottom of flange) is 0.022" - from NMRA S-4. Note that this is half of the rail height above the ties for C55.

    NMRA RP-4 states that N fine flanges are 0.020."
     
  17. Hoss

    Hoss TrainBoard Member

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    All I know is the stuff is GOOD. :D
     
  18. nmtexman

    nmtexman In Memoriam

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    Reason for this is that the stock MT wheels are TOO BIG!!!!! The problem is not the Atlas code 55 track, which is designed to meet NMRA specs. The flanges on MT wheels are too deep, and will pick the tops of the "spikes." Both Atlas and MT offer low-profile wheels which you should use if you want to run the Atlas code 55 and have MT equipment.

    So the blame here goes to MT, not Atlas. And frankly, I'll by the wheelsets from Atlas, since MT skirted the spec for so long.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Use low profile wheels. The new MT cars come with them and they sell them in 100-packs. And yes, normal MT wheels do not work with Atlas code 55 which is why N-Trak doesn't use it.
     
  19. the_great_snag

    the_great_snag TrainBoard Member

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    Wow, I'm a genius! I was trying to design a stub-ended yard for my layout, and I came up with almost exactly the same thing! Got a couple questions though:

    How do you block the wiring so as to enable road power to get to the head end of the train if it's going to the left? Likewise, how do you run it around to the engine track if it arrives from the right, thus pointing to the left on arrival? I would guess you'd want to stay clear of the mainline, but maybe not...

    Also, would it be advisable to add a second caboose track for offset cupola cabooses so you always have one "pointing" the right direction, or doesn't it matter?

    Thanks,

    Ray
     
  20. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Ray, if you use only the stub type yard shown:

    You flip the A/D (Arrival/Departure) toggle to "on" and you are now isolating the matching section of the main line, so power now goes from main line through both turnouts and onto the A/D track. You also flip power "on" to the Yard Lead and Caboose track.

    Your switch engine comes out and pulls the caboose onto the caboose track, leaves it and takes a "cut of cars from the rear of your train, pulls them back onto the yard lead, and shoves them into one or more of the yard spurs. In the mean time the road engine has backed the rest of the train closer to the yard lead, so the switcher does not have to travel so far to get the rest of the train cars.

    The switcher again cuts cars loose from the road engine, and sets the cars off on the other yard spurs. Mean while, the road engine has backed down the engine track to the roundhouse for service and possible turning for the trip back, re fueling, water, and sand, maybe washing, crew change, etc.

    Then the switcher has started arranging the new cars into yard spurs for routing to local industries, others to continue on to destinatrions down the line, others will go to short line destinations, a few might even be carried back a ways to be made up with trains going north or south destinations which do not have tracks here.

    You need block toggles on each yard spur, the A/D track, the run arounds, engine track, and the yard lead. The main line is controlled separately, and may have several blocks on it.

    Each yard around your layout will need most of these features minimum, but could have more or less spur tracks, and maybe no engine tracks.

    There were many times when the road engine had to do the switching duties, then go get service, or continue down the line.

    It is still quite a lot of action on a stub yard. I have spent the better part of a day running engines through this vary senario. The next day I had to make up a "new" train and send it out on the main line. It would come back in again another day. That is what makes it fun to me, and I have the choice of 33 engines to get it all done, so it seldom repeats, and I never get bored! Occasionally a car will derail, or I'll flip the wrong turnout, and that is when I have to run haul out the "Big Hook" and lift the outlawed car back on the track! There is just so very much to do!!

    If you mirror this stub yard (and you can also flip that half upside down too) now you have a wealth of action just in this double ended yard alone!

    It really doesn't matter which direction the road engine arrives from, on the stub yard, it is still possible to put the road engine in the roundhouse, shunt all the cars away, and park the caboose. That is part of what you learn to figure out.

    A caboose was not turned, they ran cupola fore or aft made no difference.

    Enjoy! :D
     

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