Trouble Getting Static Grass to Stand

UP_Challenger3985 May 23, 2018

  1. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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    I've seen many great looking static grass scenes on a variety of layouts, both in person and in photos. However, I've been having a heck of a time getting mine to look decent and "stand up".

    I'm using a basket type applicator, and I've verified (partially accidentally) that it works and has a charge. Using a nail in the clip vs just holding the clip on the foam/glue does not make a difference either.

    I have used both Woodland Scenics static grass flock and the Walthers stuff. I also bought longer (6mm) Noch grass but I have yet to try that.

    I've also tried putting a layer of ground foam under neath vs just putting glue down on my foam board, not much different in results.

    Attached are a few photos of my most recent attempt (this is with ground foam under neath and giving a good soaking of Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement), but I know its a little hard to tell.

    Hoping someone can steer me in the right direction here.

    Thanks!
    Matt IMG_0333.JPG IMG_0332.JPG
     
  2. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Matt,

    The trick is to get the basket/grill close (but not too close) to the surface. Unlike all the advertising photos, where the dispenser is 6-10 inches above the surface, that is too far for the charge, especially if you are in relatively humid area (>30%RH). I have found I need to have the screen about 3 inches or so above the surface to get everything to stand, sometimes closer.

    If you get too close, you can get strands of the fibers growing between the surface and applicator.
     
    Mark Watson likes this.
  3. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

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    You are probably getting poor electrical conductivity from your adhesive. Dilute your white glue with water to increase conductivity. I like using Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement. It conducts will and helps get a nice vertical stance on the grass. And like Rick said, hold the applicator low over the grass. I get my eye down low, so I have the applicator as low as possible, sometimes just 1/4" over the grass.
     
    Mark Watson likes this.
  4. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks guys! My basket is usually pretty close to the surface, but I'll make sure to pay special attention to that tonight.

    @jpwisc - I am using Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement - do you still recommend diluting that with water?
     
  5. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Yes, always dilute for static grass. And, if it is beading on your surface, you can even add IPA to it, as a wetting agent. I tend to use a 50:25:25 mix of white glue: water : IPA.

    Also helps it to dry quicker.
     
  6. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

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    I'm going to try that blend, that sounds even better than just diluting with water.
     
  7. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Sorry, what does "IPA" stand for here? All I know is "India Pale Ale" as in beer, but I feel that won't help ;).
     
  8. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Seems like a waste of IPA. Isn't there another product to use as a glue wetting agent? IPA is better consumed by the modeler while applying static grass.
     
    UP_Challenger3985 likes this.
  9. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

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    Isopropyl Alcohol. I like 70% for static grass.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  10. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Sorry guys. To a chemist, it was clear to me.
     
  11. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Oh, and there is nothing exact about the ratio, just eyeball it (without too much consumption of the other IPA; and none of the subject)
     
  12. Rocket Jones

    Rocket Jones TrainBoard Member

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    I too immediately thought "beer", and then a moment later I had it. Can't recall hearing it called IPA before.
     
  13. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Glad I wasn't alone on the IPA thing :p.

    I thought alcohol was a no-no here because of the potential sparks from the applicator? Is that not an issue?
     
  14. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Not diluted as mentioned.

    The chemical iso-propanol, aka isopropyl alcohol, aka 2-propanol, has been commonly known as IPA for more than a century. India Pale Ale, while known as that since the early 19th century, didn’t have the initials IPA for it really enter the common lexicon until about 20 years ago, except in the UK.
     
  15. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Here's my latest attempt. I made sure to keep the basket closer to the surface and diluted the Scenic Cement with some water and IPA.

    It's a little better I think (I especially like the color better) but still not quite what I was expecting. I added some details around the edges. Holding a person in the grass for scale helped a bit.

    Open to any feedback. Thanks!

    IMG_0340.JPG IMG_0342.JPG IMG_0344.JPG
     
  16. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Matt, can you show us what you are using? It is acting as if you aren't getting a good static field between your dispenser and surface.

    I made this video, for Mike Fifer's How to series, a number of years ago. It might help
     
  17. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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  18. JimJ

    JimJ Staff Member

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    Great video! Makes me want to try it.
     
  19. UP_Challenger3985

    UP_Challenger3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Great video Rick, thanks for sharing!

    I just tried some of the techniques from your video so we will see how it turns out. I'll post some pictures in a bit.
     
  20. dalebaker

    dalebaker TrainBoard Member

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    BCBC836B-2135-42E4-8759-DC280C112B28.jpeg I built my own grass sifter from an electronic fly shatter from Harbor Freight and a colander from Walmart, I got maybe 10 bucks in it.

    The trick for me is to layer on the scenery. The static grass is the last base layer before putting down bushes, trees, grass tufts. Around here(NE Oklahoma) in the spring, the really tall weeds are usually brown with the green growth down low. I use a Golden Brown color to simulate the dead growth. Once you get the other grasses, weeds, bushes and trees in, you will have a nice field.

    BTW, to me your grass reminds me of a winter wheat or alfalfa field. Something more cultivated rather than a all volunteer growth.

    Thanks,
    Dale
     
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