Operating Hump yard

ritafritz Aug 14, 2004

  1. ritafritz

    ritafritz Suspended

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    Anyone have experience with an operating hump yard? I have been doing a feasability study and it is possible to mobidy my large yard to an operating hump yard with some track realignment/changes and a little bench work.
     
  2. GimpLizard

    GimpLizard TrainBoard Member

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    MR had an article on one a few years ago. Seems I recall they called for forced air, though small lines along side the track and angled at the on-coming cars, as retarders.

    Mike
     
  3. ritafritz

    ritafritz Suspended

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    Thanks Mike, I'll look for the article.
     
  4. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    I tried one about 25 years ago, when rolling stock, couplers, switches and track weren't very good. I tried an electromagnet in the middle of the descent as a retarder. I fiddled with it for perhaps a week with zero results, then went with a flat lead.

    With today's computers (or even those of a decade ago), speed-sensing circuitry, more than one retarder, and a lot of software and experimentation, the electromagentic scheme might work. I think it would still need a lot of space.

    I'm also pretty sure I read about the air-retarders in MR many years ago, but perhaps that was more a thought-piece than a real model.
     
  5. ryourstone

    ryourstone TrainBoard Member

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    I've seen an HO air-retarder hump yard in action at the NYSME layout many years ago.

    But, I'm thinking of doing something much simpler. Just a small hill the cars can roll down to simplify switching, and not so steep a retarder is required. If a block of cars needs an occasional shove further down, that's fine. I like manual control anyway and will be using a pick to uncouple at the top of the hump.

    Also, the yard I'm thinking of modeling (Allentown) used a combination of hump and flat switching it seems. Blocks of cars were often pulled over the hump by engines to the yard below, and trains too long for the short eastbound receiving yard would proceed right over the hump with their road power!

    Of course, it depends on if you're doing it for practical reasons or theatrical effect, where you might want everything automatic.

    -Rich
     
  6. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    That would be the BRIO opperating system. :D :D
    Hey, I use it all the time.
     
  7. ryourstone

    ryourstone TrainBoard Member

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    Maybe those kids are on to something, they sure seem to be having fun! And they haven't even learned about switch lists yet.

    -Rich
     
  8. ritafritz

    ritafritz Suspended

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    I was thinkingof using the air method, but since del-air is ou of busisiness,, will use he low hill idea. How high was the hill(top of hump?)
     
  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    If I recall correctly, Allen McClelland had a working hump yard on his well known V&O HO layout. But it was removed, and that area rebuilt. Don't know if he'd experienced any troubles?

    :D

    Boxcab E50
     
  10. ryourstone

    ryourstone TrainBoard Member

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    The yard rebuild on the V&0 was in Model Railroad planning 1998 - I don't have that issue, maybe someone else knows if the hump details were mentioned? I believe the reason was to get longer staging tracks and had nothing to do with the layout problems.

    ritafritz, I've only done some testing with temporarily tacked down track but something around an inch seems good. It will probably depend mostly on the length of the throat and number of turnouts to clear. I for one will definitly be interested in hearing how this works out.

    -Rich
     
  11. David Bean

    David Bean TrainBoard Member

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    I have a Kalmbach video showing various layouts and one of these had a working hump yard.

    I believe the layout was owned by Don Santel and he controlled the speed of descent of freight cars by air nozzles placed under the track and varied the pressure to suit.

    I know in the video that he and Alan Mclelland were having fun as his hum yard worked and Allens didn't.

    He did say that under the layout looked like Swiss cheese as he tried all variations to get it to work.

    Very interesting but not for me, far too complicated.

    Regards,
    David
     
  12. ritafritz

    ritafritz Suspended

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    I will get some track and test. I was planning on 10 tracks. 5 comming off either side of a wye switch. Will need to do a lot of testing . Will keep you posted in the future.
     
  13. amtrak30

    amtrak30 New Member

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    I had a working hump (Clearing Yard) on my Belt Railway of Chicago layout (HO). It was the one job I had no trouble filling as everyone wanted to work the hill. I had a 5' approach to the crest (4.5") and then the main hill down was about 2' where I had a 6 track class yard. I had 2 Kadee magnets at the crest to uncouple the cars. I had a few guys including myself that could keep the train moving over the hill without stopping and the cars would break loose one at a time and roll down to the class tracks. The magnets worked real well. Metal wheels and ofcourse Kadee's make it interesting. My yard tracks were about 17' long and cars usally made it about halfway down the tracks. I was working on instlalling an air system but I had to move. The plan was to have the yard preferated with holes and airlines connected to a small compressor with a foot peddal to control the airflow. It was alot of fun to have and now with the new layout getting ready to be built I will consider doing the hump thing again (CR Elkhart Yard).

    Amtrak 30
     
  14. ritafritz

    ritafritz Suspended

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    My father-in-law restores antique cars and he suggested I go to a car parts store and see if they can come up with something I can use as a valve for the system. The foot pedel idea is a good one. Amtrak30. What were you going to use for the pedal and where did you get it?
     
  15. amtrak30

    amtrak30 New Member

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    you can pick one up at Harbor Freight or any place that sells high quality air tools.
     
  16. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    At chantilly there was a humpyard that used monofilament fishing line glued vertically between the rails to rub on the axles of cars to slow them down. The monofilament was very hard to see.
     
  17. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    ritafritz,

    Here are some details of my experiment. The lead was about 50 inches long. The height of the hump was about 1.5 inches high. The ramp down to the first switch (a Minitrix 3-way, yech!) was about 40 inches (about 3%, IIRC), then continued downhill through other switches at one percent (1%). The electromagent was about 2/3rds of the way from the hump to the 3-way.

    It didn't work! As Edison may have said, "I didn't fail. I just found 10,000 ways that didn't work." Or something like that.
     
  18. Charlie Vlk

    Charlie Vlk February 5, 2023 In Memoriam

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    The guys in Indianapolis NTRAK (Central Indiana NTRAK -CINTRAK) had an operating hump yard over ten years ago.
    The kicker (pardon the pun!) is getting the cars to roll far enough into the bowl....or from slamming into a cut of cars at warp speed.
    They solved the problem with a system of air jets. They worked up a drilling jig to bore holes in the center of the track at about a 30 degree angle into the plywood yard base either opposing or with the direction of travel in order to slow or move each car as it is sent down a particular track.
    The air lines were fitted to the holes with a short section of brass tubing epoxied to the hole. I don't recall what the control panel looked like or what valves were used (direct or selenoid) but the system did work rather well.
    Maybe someone is on the list that was a CINTRAK member back then that can fill in the details, or even better, write an article for N Scale Railroading on the subject!!
    Charlie Vlk
     
  19. ritafritz

    ritafritz Suspended

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    Thanks all. I need to get some track and build a hump. I will need to do a lot of testing to determine which way I would build the hump braking system (gravity, monofiliment ofr air). If anyone else has any thoughts please post them. All help is greatly appreciates.
     

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