Day of destruction nears.

Day of destruction nears.

Ok Atlas code55 faithful.
Walk me threw fixing my track.

Or I will be ripping it up and
replacing it with Peco or Unitrack.

Lets start with a turnout that's catching
on the points and taking the diverging
route when not thrown.

The tortoise is moving the turnout
and keeping pressure on the points.

What's next?

Thanks,
Loco1999

 

Loco1999:

I would try to find the solution regarding those code 55 turnouts, before you decide to rip up the track and all that fine scenicking you did in and around the track.


I wish I could guide you regarding code 55 rail, but I haven't got a clue....

Stay cool and run steam...

 

I'm sure you've mentioned it all previously in other topics, but what problems are you having with the 55? Especially on your beautiful layout?

I'm using code 55 and it serves me well. I've had some problems around switches, but only because I don't have anything holding the points tight yet and because of my crowded trackplan. I'd take the Atlas 55 over anything anyday just cuz it looks so good. If you rip it up, are you selling it for cheap?

 

#5 turnout


Problem:
Lets start with a turnout that's catching
on the points and taking the diverging
route when not thrown.

More:
This happens to 50% of locos
and 20% of rolling stock.

I have checked the loco wheels
with a standards guage.

Note:
The tortoise is moving the turnout
and keeping pressure on the points.

Question:
What do I check next?

Thanks,
Loco1999

 

Loco1999,

Before ripping up your beautiful work, look at a few things. I have only a few #5s, but many #7s. I also bought them early on, when they were first available. I've had some problems with both, but have been able to fix them.

First, do you have a curve leading to the switch? I've found I need at least 3-4 inches of straight track before the switch. If a curve comes into the switch, the train (engine and cars) will follow the diverging route in about the proportion you describe.

Second, is there a kink just before the switch? By that I mean a narrow gauge on the track someplace within a foot of the switch. I've found that many track problems start well before the engine or cars actually derail. Running at the slowest speed I can manage, and wearing an Optivisor, I've often found the problem at a switch actually started a foot or two earlier, sometimes with just a single grit of ballast that lifted a truck onto, but not over, the rail.

Third, use a small jewelers file to enlarge the passageways (frog and guardrails.) It doesn't take much.

Fourth, check the vertical alignment around the switch. The Atlas C55 points can be deflected upwards very easily. While the Tortoise may be keeping pressure, it could also be raising the points up just enough to cause a bump, and then a derailment. This happened to me four or five times out of 80 switches. An adjustment to the throwrod/switch machine fixed it in every case. I have only two Tortoises, but the problem came with ground throws which bent the "throw-tie" either up or down.

Hope this helps. I have 800 feet of C55 Track and 80+ switches, and have been able to fix all the problems (8 spots so far) without to much trouble.

 

Pete gives some great advice on these turnouts. I have both #5s and #7s on my layout and have had no problems with the #7s.

The #5s need the guard rails swiped with a file and a quick brush or two on the frog will "unwedge" your gauged locomotives. If the locos and rolling stock are randomly picking at the points do as Pete suggests and if that doesn't do it; contact Atlas and I am sure that they will make it right. After you get the kinks out, power the frogs and watch your loco of choice crawl through those switches with absolutely no loss of power.

Brian

 

Thanks Guys.

Thanks so much Pete.

The tortoise throws it too much, popping it up.
I removed it and it runs better without it.

I will see if I can make it work
by adjusting the tortoise.

I also filed some frogs, It's helping.

Loco1999

More to come....

 

My layout is code 80 - I've never had any reliability issues once I got the trackwork 'dialed in'. Once I got it ballasted and painted, it looks presentable. I do like the look of the C55 though, and would consider it for a future layout - so I'm interested to hear how your issues turn out.

 

I got the tortoise wire lined up better.
But I still had some problems.

I painted glue under the turnout edges
and put a brick on it for a few hours.

I think that one is all better now.

Extra thanks to Pete.

On to the next problem.

First #7 crossover in reverse.
Two locos reversing twelve cars.
The back 10 cars roll fine.
The 11 or 2 car derails it's plastic low pros one truck.
The 12 or 1 car derails it's plastic low pros both trucks.
The two locos went through, oops slow to stop the train.


Loco1999

 

Loco1999:

Switch the plastic low profile wheels to Atlas metal wheel sets and see what happens. Do it on both #11 and # 12 cars. (all wheelsets)


Stay cool and run steam.....

 

Hmm. . .

PSG1790's advice is very sound.

But, could this be a coupler problem, rather than a track problem? After cussing at my track for a few days, I've learned that coupler problems account for perhaps 90 percent of derailments.

N scale is finicky, at best. When I have trouble with a consist of cars, in your case 12 cars, I try to futher isolate the problem. Try swapping the suspected problem car end for end. Then try swapping the cars in front or behind end for end. Then try swapping the problem car(s) from the front to the rear of the consist.

I think you'll eventually find a defect. In my experience, it's usually been a coupler that rides too high or too low, and therefore pushes its neighbor to the side, or up, or down. Whatever direction doesn't mattter--a wheelset is misplaced and derails.

Whatever coupler you are using, this can happen. There are many causes: the coupler spring may be a little bit misplaced; the coupler may have been displaced (up-down-left-right) through rough handling or coupling (my typical cause); there may be interference with the car body--I'm surprised at how often this happens.

A keen eye on what your couplers are doing--especially on suspect cars--can really help resolve these kind of difficulties.

 

Thanks Guys.

I dropped it to two locos and eight cars.

Now I can reverse everywhere.

I'll keep testing....

I will look at wheel sets and couplers.



"Man these trucks and wheels got really messed up".

Loco1999

 

Its amazing how much less controversial this thread is over here than on the other board ...

 

How is the weight of your cars, Loco? Are they off the shelf or been weighted to a standard?
When propelling (backing) light weight cars will tend to jacknife, particularly with truck mounted couplers. It is exacerbated the longer the train (more weight). Also the trucks tend to push sideways when propelling through the diverging leg. Any mismatch between the gauge of track and/or wheels will find problems very quickly.

Derailing whilst propelling is a problem I have found with Peco code 80 electrofrogs (and possibly the 55's as well). The back-to-back gauge at the frog is 'liberal' and the odd flange will pick the frog tip and derail. I got around the problem by gluing a .015" thick x .060" wide strip of styrene to the inside of the guard rail to keep the flange away from the frog. Worked a treat!
Maybe that could be a solution for the Atlas turnouts?

 

Loco 1999,

One thing that I have found is that the first switches put out lacked a small bar that crosses the throw bar. I could not figure out why I derailed all the time when in reverse. Then I noticed that when I threw the switch for the diverging route the switch machine I was using lifted the frog up. On new switches this is not a problem. Hope you find you problems.

 

There is some thought behind what is said here...

On Atlas most responses are emotional and don't even deal with the question or problem.

Stay cool and run steam....

 

Off the shelf.

Thanks for some good info.

I'll try to work on it some more.

Thanks,
Loco1999

 

I'll repost here some thoughts I just wrote for the Atlas Forum:

John Armstrong's discussion of "S-curves" deserves a re-reading by anyone who has access to his landmark book "Track Planning for Realistic Operations." While I think he wrote the book before N scale was well established, the principles apply. A straight section between curves and switches, if I read him correctly, can cause problems if it is too short for a "snaky" situation--if you are coming off a turn and the switch route turns in the opposite direction. The curve, in other words, is "lefthanded" while the diverging route is "right-handed." Like Armstrong, I try for at least a car-length between snaky curves. I probably should have recommended 6 inches, rather than 3-4 inches.

It's my experience in N scale that even a slight misalignment of track can cause locos and cars to act as if they are on an S-curve. In fact, even a stray piece of ballast can do it. Because their center of gravity is above the track, locos and cars lean out from the curve (hence, superelevation). I've found this leaning causes most of the problems with points and switches, especially if they are tight or somehow raised. This applies to C55 and C80, and especially any track that you have to ballast yourself.

I'll add here on TB: S-curves are sometimes very hard to detect. Cross-overs are usually S-curves in the extreme, which is why many of us are demanding at least #11 switches. I'm lucky to have enough space that I could even use #19s which, I think, are getting into the range of the real thing.

 

Great point BN6480!

The lack of the bar (most of my switches don't have them, as I was an early buyer in bulk) allows funny things to happen with aggressive throws. Besides raising the points, I'll bet they also allow the gauge to compress.

I'll have to examine this over the weekend. Most of my throws are spring-loaded (Caboose Hobbies 206-S); others are thrown by springy wires; still others don't have the spring or springy wire.

I'll bet the ground throws and switches that are causing my problems are the ones I bought in emergency mode at my LHS that may not have a spring action, either built in or through the wire!

And, welcome to Trainboard!