Would you spend money on this DCC++ Setup???

Sumner Feb 23, 2020

  1. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    This question relates to DCC but I figured if it was placed over there a lot of the board members that don't use DCC wouldn't see it so hopefully this works.

    There is discussion going on now in the DCC forum about trying to make a DCC++ install using an Arduino less intimidating for members who are not interested in an install that involves much computer knowledge along with electronics knowledge.

    So the question is how many of you would be interested in a DCC++ system if that was minimized to the point that you only connect cables and turned it on or maybe had to download JMRI on your computer if you didn't go with the pre-loaded option that you will see below.

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    I think the first thing most people ask is what is it going to cost me. To help with this I put together a spreadsheet with average costs and pretty much what I paid to do this. Shop around and you will probably find some cheaper options but this is a fair starting point. It is divided into three sections (options) so don't jump to the bottom total price as in most cases you could do it for as little as the first option which is $68.00.

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    If you are going to use your computer and can download JMRI to it to use then the first option above will work for you and you will have an operating DCC system. It would cost you $68.00 to have DCC up and running but notice there is one figure that is priced at ???. You need to load the DCC++ sketch onto the Arduino before this is going to work and if you aren't very computer literate this can be a daunting task. One option would be that you might be able to buy an Arduino for a little more that has the sketch (operating program) pre-loaded for you. One of our members, Flightrisk, has offered to possibly do this for a few dollars and those dollars would go to help support this site.

    So for a little over $68.00 you would be able to get an Ardunio/Motor Shield combination, a power supply that would supply DCC track power and a cable to connect to your computer which you have downloaded JMRI onto. You would now have an operating DCC layout where you could run trains, use your phone as a wireless throttle and use Decoder Pro to program your loco's decoder plus use a lot of other features that you will find with JMRI. It would be about as close to plug and play as possible. The only real negative is You are going to have to download JMRI and do a small amount of configuring.

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    Next option would eliminate you having to download JMRI and would also give you a stand alone computer system for the train room. You wouldn't need to use your computer. This entails using a $35 Raspberry Pi Computer, which is a full functioning computer but doesn't run Windows so again normally requires some computer work getting the operating system and JMRI loaded onto the Raspberry Pi. But here is the good news. For $10 I'll send you a micro SD card with all of that loaded onto it. Plug it into the card slot on the Pi, connect the Pi to the Arduino with the computer cable and turn the Pi on and you are up and running with a stand alone DCC system. You do need to buy a couple other items but they are plug and play. This option adds $53.00 to the system cost. Again the couple profit dollars in the $10 for the SD card will go to support this site.

    One thing that is missing at this point is that you have a computer up and running but no screen or mouse and keyboard so no way to see what is going on with JMRI and no way to run Decoder Pro or get to the throttles. To handle that I added the last section which is labeled Raspberry Pi Add-ons. I kept this separate as I had these items laying around and many of you probably also have at least some of them.

    For the monitor you could use a spare HDMI TV if you have one or get the HDMI to VGA cable converter and plug it into the Pi and plug a regular VGA monitor into it and have a screen The Pi has 4 USB ports so will work with any wired or wireless mouse and keyboard, which are also cheap if you don't have them. If you don't have any of these items then add another $54.50 to the cost.

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    So to summarize for anywhere between $68.00 to $175.50 you could have a plug and play DCC system that would power your layout (would want to add boosters if it is a large layout) and be able to use JMRI with many more features past just running trains. With JMRI you will be able to program your decoders and also use a phone or multiple phones as wireless throttles plus JMRI has many more options.

    Please indicate if this is something that might be of interest to you. Just take the time to post "yes". This won't commit you to anything but give us an idea if there is interest in this.

    Thanks

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  2. dalebaker

    dalebaker TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Sumner,

    Im interested in seeing how this progresses. I think part of the issue with the hobby now is the cost to get started and participate. This brings things down to a more acceptable level. I run Digitrax now and have a set-up that works quite well for my MRR. But if I were young, wanted to get involved with my kids and had limited disposable income, this could be a welcome way to become active.

    Since most people do have some type of computer now, being able to have a graphic interface would be most helpful.

    I’ll be watching this thread.
    Dale
     
  3. wvgca

    wvgca TrainBoard Member

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    I -think- you are a bit out on some of your costs ...my uno was $8 with the USB cable, and the shield was another $8, I had the power supply already ...
     
  4. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Was that a clone or the real thing?

    I went with the real thing to avoid any confusion especially with the shield as I've read where some have had problems with a clone, not all but some. Of course going the clone route is still anyone's choice :). I almost did but since it was my first experience with an Arduino decided to leave that variable out.

    I'm personally not selling any of this except to help out with image cards for the Pi if anyone wants one that is ready to plug in. Not trying to discourage anyone from shopping around for the best prices they can find or hopefully having some of the items already like you had with the power supply. But the main emphasis is on trying to put parts together in such a way that it helps the non-computer/non-electronics person get into DCC++ at a reasonable cost.

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  5. Donstaff

    Donstaff TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, I am interested in this.

    Don
     
  6. Donstaff

    Donstaff TrainBoard Member

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    Like a lot of people, I have a working DCC layout with Digitrax throttles and even a PR3, but just can't seem to get it all put together. I have a MacBook Pro with JRMI downloaded, but don't want to dedicate it to the layout. For me, the details are missing an I'm anxious to go the JMRI for dummies route.

    Don
     
  7. Les B49

    Les B49 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi, Sumner.

    Interesting thread, prompting 3 points from me:

    1). I can vouch for the usability of this approach. First, let me admit I admit I worked in IT, including programming in machine code & high level languages in
    the 70s, but for the past 10 years have just wanted to be a simple computer user - asking my son to sort out new issues for me. But having bought an Arduino & motor shield just to have a bit of fun & get a g-gauge r/w running under DCC++, it’s worked out well and certainly been low cost. With the help you’re suggesting, I’m sure many others who are not very comfortable with computers could get into this too. I now use an Arduino running JMRI’s Decoder Pro, with iPhone or iPad running WiThrottle (free is sufficient -or low cost version with split-screen interface to show several throttles) as a hand-held controller. Points/turnouts I control using a simple app based on a free youtube demo running on an ESP32 (about £8), driving servos. Everything has cost me under £150, I would guess.

    2) The major cost, when you spend so little on the DCC central hardware and software is of course the engine decoder(s) - from tens of £s to several hundred, depending on features and power needed (scale-dependant). I would love to see someone produce a basic low-cost decoder using Arduinos or ESP32 chips...

    3) This is the only time I’ve bothered to look in the Inspection Pit - I’ve always assumed there would be nothing of interest here for me. I would suggest you at least put a bare-bones entry in the DCC and DCC++ forums to suggest people come here to look at this thread...

    Regards,
    Les
     
  8. Thomas Davis

    Thomas Davis TrainBoard Member

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    Well, if it is a "yes or no" answer, then "no"- at least the hardware end (where the top post is focused). Not because I am not interested in DCC++, but because I already did it. Works fine. I used a Mega rather than an Uno, mostly because my son (electrical/robotics engineer) gave me a kit of Arduino parts and I wanted to see if I could make it work. So, as a way of getting into DCC, it seems to me to be cost effective, flexible, and fairly simple, once you get it operational on your system- which for me was the hard part.

    My lack of skill with the obscurities of JAVA combined with online instructions and FAQs for both JAVA install and JMRI that were, well, wrong (that is- used incorrect syntax for my Linux install) were the issue, not the hardware. From what I have seen of the various commercial systems, DCC++ seems miles ahead when it comes to actually programming a decoder since you have the option of using a computer with a screen where you can see the entire CV layout, plus have pages dedicated to light and sound features.

    So, from my point of view, help with the software/install end is where help is needed most. If that is what is being offered here, I suspect it will be a big help in making JMRI/DCC++ more popular.

    "So to summarize for anywhere between $68.00 to $175.50 you could have a plug and play DCC system that would power your layout (would want to add boosters if it is a large layout) and be able to use JMRI with many more features past just running trains. With JMRI you will be able to program your decoders and also use a phone or multiple phones as wireless throttles plus JMRI has many more options.

    Please indicate if this is something that might be of interest to you. Just take the time to post "yes". This won't commit you to anything but give us an idea if there is interest in this."
    I will take major exception to the idea that DCC++ is "plug and play"- certainly mine was not. Again, lots of hours spent integrating it into my computer system. And I am unclear on the last sentence- are you contemplating selling systems based on Arduinos, or are you contemplating starting up a thread on resolving the issues for those facing the same problems I (and I suspect many others ) faced in getting systems up and running?
     
  9. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Les thanks for your input. I put the thread here trying to aim it at those who currently aren't running DCC and that might be interested if a low cost option was available to them. I figured it was likely they wouldn't be viewing threads on the DCC forum as much as they would here. As you mentioned maybe a pointer there to here would be a good idea.

    Hopefully the effort that is being pursued (a least one branch of it) will greatly help with the software (sketch) install on the Arduino. Also installing JMRI and the operating system on a Raspberry Pi $35 computer if you go that way. Along with also an installer to help with installing JMRI on your present computer.

    Two options are being looked at with the Arduino. One is you get to buy an Arduino for a few bucks more that has the software on it and it is ready to use out of the box.

    Another is an option to load a DCC++ installer on your computer like what you do to add any new program. Connect an Arduino to your computer and the installer will put DCC++ on the Arduino. You wouldn't have to go through all the steps you had to go through.

    At present I'm offering to send someone a micro SD card for a Raspberry Pi that you just plug into the Pi and it boots up with JMRI and the Pi operating system pre-loaded.

    With the above options one has basically a plug and play DCC++ system. Connect a power supply to the Arduino/Shield combination. Connect a standard cable between the Raspberry Pi and the Arduino. Connect the Main and Program tracks to the Arduino. Connect a monitor and keyboard to the Pi and you are in business with JMRI on the screen as soon as you turn the power on. You are ready to program decoders and run trains after just connecting a couple cables. Not much different than any other DCC system.

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  10. Donstaff

    Donstaff TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks again Sumner, especially for the additional inclusion of Raspberry Pi 3.5. I'm interested in the idea of a micro SD card for a Raspberry Pi that you just plug into the Pi and it boots up with JMRI and the Pi operating system pre-loaded. It seems to be a lot more user friendly for those of us who don't know or have any particular interest in learning how to program DC+++. We just want a less expensive entry point into JMRI than dedicating a big bucks laptop.

    Don

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  11. Donstaff

    Donstaff TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Sumner. I'm all in. Where do I send the check?

    Donstaff
     
  12. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I sent you a PM. You can be a test case :).

    Sumner
     

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