WD-40 Electrical Contact Cleaner is better for our cleaning purposes. There is a problem with it which I've already covered. I use WD-40 old style to loosen up rusted bolts and the likes. WD-40 Electrical Contact Cleaner/actually Radio Shacks Electrical Tuner Cleaner. I like the latter better. Just my two cents and I take change. Short changed usually! LOL
Well the test is officially on with the track cleaners. The mainline and mine spur were cleaned with WD-40 contact cleaner the port section which comprises about half the layout with the No Ox. 100_0350-1 by John Moore posted Jul 21, 2020 at 4:50 PM The white sock at the top was used for the No Ox and the bottom sock was used for the WD-40 contact cleaner. Why the sock above top appears dirtier is No Ox is a paste, the contact cleaner being a liquid dissolved the dirt. In about a week I will break out my wheel cleaner and clean a pair of locos to run over all the track. Right off I do not like the fact that the No Ox is like a thick paste, think shoe polish consistency. Perhaps it will go on easier if I use one of the cleaning pads on my Tidy Track rail cleaner system.
John I have been using the NoOX now for about 6 months with great results. The fact that it was a paste bothered me too but the trick seems to be to spread a very thin smear onto what ever you use to apply it. I used a Tidy Track tool with one of the soft pads to apply it on my layout. I have not had to re-apply except for a few areas where I had worked on the layout.
[Oops, Brad snuck in there ] With No-Ox you have to use a MINUTE and I mean very MINUTE, the very tiniest MINUTE amount and spread it around the tracks. A tiny touch of your finger, then just run it everywhere. The picture of your sock above looks like you used waaaay too much.
No that is just the effect of several dabs. A lot of spurs come off the port track. Then the sock was run over the applied area again to pick up any excess. I have barely made a dent in the No Ox can.
I tried the No OX. It did seem to work. However...trains seemed to 'sputter' if I hadnt been out there in awhile. With the Regular WD-40....I go out...turn the power on and the trains go....no sputter. I still occasionally wipe down the track with a clean dry sock just to get any 'accumulation' off the rails. I dont see the dark 'crude' on the sock like I used to with IPA treated track. I am not even gonna guess where and 'crude. goes. I can tell you its NOT on the locomotive wheels NOR the rolling stock wheels. Like Trump says "Someday day it will just magically disappear !" LOL
I'm gonna stay back where its safe. Track and wheel cleaning is a hot topic and I will be the first to point out that Rick started it. I will share my bit of experience. My best lesson was to toss the rough bright boy. Find a way to burnish or polish the rail so less gunk can get a hold of the rails. I used No-ox on my garage layout for ten years with good success. It had Peco code 80 turnouts with Atlas code 80 flextrack. I found my best bet to an easy start up was to blow or vacuum the layout off first or run trains more frequently. There was always a stubborn spot or two but an almost undetectable swipe of no-ox spread by metal wheels of locos or rolling stock put things back in order. I may use it again as I am familiar with it. I have been using the WD-40 Contact Cleaner on my modules in my garage for about six months now. The results so far are about the same. If I have not run trains in a while a blow off or vacuum is needed and sometimes a swipe of cleaner here and there is required. Less trafficked areas like spurs needed more work with any product. I am convinced the magic solution to track cleaning is understanding what is happening, clear expectations, and patience to take the time to clean a bit.
Hey guys and gals tuned in here. Yes, you can blame me for starting this discussion. I did it! (Out of frustration) Track cleaning in any scale has always been a challenge. Oxidation and arcing of electricity has been a very real problem to deal with. Of course causes and effect are always subject to scrutiny. Track cleaning and problems, plagues and frustrates everyone from the beginner or newbie right up to the most experienced. I've heard the best among-est us disagree and I seldom hear any of them agree on what works best. Joe Fugate certainly fueled...excuse me...fanned the flames with his research. But (forgive me for suggesting) it isn't complete and leaves us to derive our own conclusions. Do I dare say that puts us back to square one. For years I heard that metal wheels polishes the rails. Scratching my head in wonderment as I pondered over why I've cleaned so much dirt/gunk off of metal wheels as I have plastic wheels. No Kidding !! Then I found photographic evidence of my findings on two N Scale Rivarossi, baggage cars, I recently purchased. Pictures submitted in my original posts. Page 1. Yep, metal wheels do get dirty. In the world of professional cleaners we call the kind of gunk I saw on my wheels as it related to any scale and/or all scales, as "Environmental Build-up. EVPU" One old timer took exception to that saying in the model railroad world there's no such things as "Environmental Build-up". He's good with me. After all it was new to him and yes we've never used such an expression in the past. Not that it matters when you look at how bad our linguistics has gotten. We don't even sound like the founding fathers of model railroading, anymore. That's another issue for another time and place. Look it's all good and you can call it what you want. The "I call it syndrome. Obviously, it hasn't caught on EVBU. However, the premise we housekeeping cleaners base it on, the science that went into it. We took cultures of the dirt and grit and sometimes gunk we found on the edges of floors, Ie., vinyl, linoleum, various grades of carpet all said it was the result of dirt, dust, hair, hair dander, oil, smoke, cigarette smoke, plant pollen, saliva, urine and some feces. The cultures also taught us about how diseases that can be transmitted and to be honest the results we saw, scarred some of us. Most of it described what can be found in the air, carried by dust particles, made up of stuff already described. Then there's that which rides on the liquid particulate we exhale into the air. Not very comforting information / science, especially for those of us tasked with keeping the environment in a hospital clean and sanitary. But enough on that. We have track and wheels to keep clean. You can look at the above information and decide for yourself what you want to do about all of this. I don't like using WD40 and would never recommend it for anything on our layouts. I've had bad luck or numerous bad experiences with it. I still use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol to clean my tracks. It doesn't leave the residual WD40 or any of the other cleaners leave behind. Homemade Masonite pads built into various 50' box cars. NO/OX was recommended to me by a very good friend. He has had nothing but good results with it. I have enough faith in his advice based on the climate his layout sits in. To trust he's right about this. You ought to see his layout. He can be found in Riverside, Ca., and he goes by Jhn-plsn. Acosti, who also owns a layout in Southern California, you won't find a can of WD40 anywhere near his layout. He uses IPA and I've never seen operational problems on his layout. He does perform routine maintenance cleaning of the wheels and track with IPA. Shuether, never kept a can of WD40 anywhere near or around his layout. He performed track maintenance using a homemade Masonite pad allowed to float on the bottom of four box cars. Cleaning the pads with fine sand paper. He would us IPA in the event over-spray from scenery paint fouled his track. Seriously, little to no problems with his operations. We may have beaten this horse to death. You know our discussions between those of us with experience in the hobby. This hast-to be good for the newbies as it will give them exposure to what their fellow toy train enthusiast and experienced model railroaders are doing. Now, I've got to get my layout back-up and running again. I have trains to run. I didn't spend all this money on train equipment just to have it hanging around here as storage queens. Get your track and wheels cleaned and trains rolling.
I resubmit my findings: WD-40 on top track. IPA on bottom track. WD-40....less electrical arcing between locomotive wheels and the rails that leads to that "EVPU" "GUNK" to begin with Or IPA...Constant cleaning of "Environmental Build-up. EVPU" "GUNK"on the rails . You know which one I recommend ! The end user can decide for themselves JMHO
I had long wondered if micro-arcing was possibly a cause for at least some of the wheel gunk build-up. Is that a proven fact or is it still more or less a theory?
Possibly just theory...BUT...hard to ignore results. Guys using non-polar solvents to clean/treat rails are having less gunk buildup. Joe Fugates article suggests non-polar solvents lower the arcing between wheels and rail thus less gunk. Several of us here have tried the lower dielectric constant non polar solvents and have posted the results. All so far show less gunk on whatever they use to clean track. I suggest others try them. If they dont work for you...No harm...No foul IMHO.
Hi Rick and thanks for the kudos. FYI, I tore down my garage layout some time ago with the idea to build out into the garage space for longer runs and more switching. Many years later and all I have are some freemo modules to do some switching on. I hope to have something up and running by the end of this year in an air conditioned room of the house.
Since I've stuck my neck out here and this discussion has taken an interesting turn. And I'm no where near a safe place to hide. I would hope to get the last word-in. Yeah right! First off thanks to and for everyone's participation, thoughts, challenges, tests and contributions to this thread. Appreciated. A number of years ago. I was the one who originally advised George, not to use WD40. Why? Because of the residual it leaves behind. The issue here is Residual. Usually a detergent or solvent based residual. Focusing on whatever, you originally use to break the the surface tension to clean the crude off your wheels. Usually with a surfactant. Known to us in professional cleaning circles as grease removers. Hint, hint. I've thought a lot about this subject and called an old friend of mine to get his take. It goes like this. Arcing by itself, doesn't cause crude... I did say by itself? I did! Arcing may cause, a black carbon that can be collected into the gunk. He reiterated usually the results of the cleaners we use that leave a residual. Key word here is Residual, it is indeed at fault. It can and most often does attract dirt out of the air to the rails. Now add to that the oil and grease we use to lube our locomotives, engines and motors and you have a source of crude. Cleaning the rails with dish water soap will clean them by acting as a surfactant. It will clean the rails and can clean the wheels but it leaves a residual. The Positive, Negative Ion thing. Something not addressed by our good friend Joe Fugate. Do understand I'm not wanting to belittle his work but suggest it isn't all inclusive. He does make a good presentation as to types of cleaners available and the MSDS categories, they come in. Known to most of us older model railroad types. Cleaning with Isopropyl Alcohol does not leave a residual. Considered to be the safest surfactant or grease remover. A trusted cleaner. The cleaners used by John M. and George/mtntrainman need some time to prove whether they work as well or better then IPA. One of the reasons I've said the tests aren't conclusive. Three months from now revisit the wheels and see how they are fairing. Hint, they have to be clean to start with. Also, remember No-Ox is just a treatment to reduce the Oxidation on metal track. It can act as a cleaner but that's usually due to the elbow grease put in to applying it. My bad. I used EVPU to describe Environmental Built-Up. I should have used EVBU. That would qualify in some circles as a senior moment. That doesn't not mean it's any less important. It is the cause of the gunk on our wheels. The challenge for you. You need to prove this to yourself. The only foul is if WD40 attacks your locomotives Traction Tires. You won''t like the results, at all. I promise. I've been there and it takes forever to wear it off. Fun to watch the wheels slip on my 2% grades. Not!! I'd rather see you stay safe (practice safe cleaning procedures) and use cleaners that are safe. Is that to much to ask? Oh on another subject: The cat pee! Good news, it is washing off nicely. Killz stain blocker a primer paint and Out Orange Oxy Stain and Odor Remover, is working out nicely. Out, has peroxide in it. I'm happy with the results. You'll figure it out. I hope. Lastly, I don't want to start a new post. JP, you aren't the only one doing Free-mo. I keep hearing good reports. Send pictures. I'm sure we'd all like to see them. Ducking and running for cover. Last I heard the Toy Train Police are looking for me. Aiiyiiyii !!
Let's go back to the original point of this discussion. The original issue. That of metal wheels on metal track and helping to burnish the rails. That happens in the real world of Trains. You know the ones on the 1X1 foot scale. Well !! There's a weight factor involved that we don't have with our Toy Trains or Model Railroads. Of course the concern is the gunk that can build up on plastic, delrin or metal wheels. Nickel Silver has changed up this discussion in a very positive way. I do agree that if you can frequently run your trains you can keep the layout cleaner longer. The pictures I presented proves that gunk can build up on metal wheels. So fearing we might relaunch this discussion I'm going to stop here. In the meantime. Run your trains as often as you can and do me a favor and enjoy the heck out of this hobby.
Rick my friend I havent posted this in years ! Time to dust it off and... I suppose we will have to respectfully agree to disagree !
Hey folks. The trick with the No-Ox is to apply it to your track and run your entire locomotive fleet over every square inch of your layout. This will treat the track and the rails and spread it all over. Be aware that NO-OX is a conditioner and not a track cleaner. It has to sit on your track and wheels for at least 24hrs. After 24 hours you just wipe all the excess off and run your trains. NO-OX will penetrate and condition the rails and wheels which prevents oxidation & arcing. As a side bonus it will practically eliminate the gunk that is produced by said oxidation/arcing. that's what it did for me anyway.
