FireBox: A Tiny DCC Train Controller

David Cutting Jun 17, 2020

  1. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

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    Did I miss something here? It looks like he made the goal and 3x more? Did something happen after? I was unable to join the campaign but I was hoping to get a production unit for some good old fashioned experiments.
     
  2. Keith Ledbetter

    Keith Ledbetter TrainBoard Member

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    Yes he sent a note today to all backers saying he is unable to finish the project and is refunding 1/2 the money (what's left) and will make all the designs available for others to pick up the work.
     
  3. ajkochev

    ajkochev TrainBoard Member

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    Just saw this and am totally bummed. Was starting to reach for my wallet when I read these last few posts. What happen to kill the project?
     
  4. Atani

    Atani TrainBoard Member

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    While unfortunate that this project has come to an end, it is good that David is planning to release the parts of it.

    I can fully understand his position on this and am in a similar position on ESP32 CS (heavily invested with time and money). I hope he is able to continue his pursuit of education and prosperity.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
     
  5. S t e f a n

    S t e f a n TrainBoard Member

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    Is there more info posted somewhere here? I can't read the notice on kickstarter. This seemed like a really neat project, and even if not all the bells and whistles were included, it would still be very cool, and probably a very efficient solution for most people.
     
  6. Atani

    Atani TrainBoard Member

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    Unfortunately it was only posted for backers of the project. But in a short summary, he has stopped work on the project and plans to open source the hardware designs.
     
  7. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    ...And he's pocketing $2,000.00 despite not delivering anything.

    ...And whining about not getting more.
     
  8. S t e f a n

    S t e f a n TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, Atani. I did get that part, but why is Dave stopping? From what was posted here a bit earlier, he's not out of money, and it seemed he had the hardware under control. Maybe I'll send him a PM, although I'm sure more people here care about his project and would like to understand the background to his decision a bit better.

    I really liked the idea that somebody was pushing an open source hardware and software project commercially.

    Doug, a few thousand dollars does not buy that much of a programmer's or hardware engineer's time. In the short time I'm here I'm amazed how much time and effort professionally qualified people (this place seems to be full of EEs) are volunteering here.
     
  9. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    No argument. Finish the project, deliver something....anything....and it's a different conversation entirely. But David sold us on a product that appeared to be considerably far along in its development. And just got FCC certification even! At least deliver the freaking hardware.

    I think he saw that $2,000.00 was going to be about as good as it gets and thought "meh, I'm good." This isn't the first time he's bailed on these types of projects, btw. His pattern as an "accidental ripoff artist" has been established and this will be the icing on the cake.
     
  10. Atani

    Atani TrainBoard Member

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    Keep in mind that I also have a PCB that will be open source etc as well. It is not like this was the only attempt at it.

    One problem with that certification, there is a hardware update required to be in compliance and it will potentially invalidate the FCC testing already done.
     
  11. S t e f a n

    S t e f a n TrainBoard Member

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    Ok, I don't have a history here, and am not really interested in dirty laundry. I think to really push these types of projects you have to have some 'irrational exuberance', and that can backfire in more pessimistic moments. But without a bit of unfounded optimism nothing would get done.

    I can understand that Kickstarter backers are a bit more upset, but airing that here in public will not help the overall larger project - it probably feels good to vent though.

    Atani, it is exciting that there are more projects, also on the hardware side; as I said, I'm just amazed!
    And personally I am more interested in something I can get 'under the hood' of and tinker with; but I think having a well-packaged commercial product as part of this is (or would have been) good for the larger project.

    Ok, I'll shut up; I have to get back to actually building a layout that can use all this electronics....
     
    Atani and wvgca like this.
  12. Atani

    Atani TrainBoard Member

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    I also don't have all of the history myself, I also don't care to air all of the laundry here beyond what I've shared already.
     
  13. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    He did a lot of his marketing to drive investors to his project via the forums, so I hardly think he's immune to criticism via this same mechanism.
     
  14. mrtinvan

    mrtinvan TrainBoard Member

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    Care to back that up? That's a pretty big accusation.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
     
  15. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hmm, which part..."accidental ripoff artist" which is a phrase I just made up? Sure. Basically it means that he's not purposefully trying to rip people off, but accidentally ends up doing so due to some circumstance. He's had couple of business ventures now and a couple of what most would describe as more informal projects that always seem to have "issues" or otherwise end in him bailing out.

    I honestly do not think his is meaning to do anything harmful....quite the opposite. I said on another discussion that I go back and forth between being mad/disappointed and wanting to sit down with David and say "dude, you're missing a huge opportunity here" career-wise. Stick it out, deliver a product, and you've a very marketable experience moving forward. I think he's an entrepreneur and risk taker and I applaud that and realize stuff happens sometimes. But it is rubbing some people wrong that he's pocketing money on this deal given nothing was delivered and there doesn't seem to be some technical reason for halting the campaign. Seems to be very much a Forrest Gump-style "I'm tired. I'm gonna stop now." And given the other history, it starts to infuse doubt into the perception of why he has once again jumped ship at the first sign of rough waters. (and nobody is really even sure what the rough waters are, or if there even are any rough waters.)

    I'll admit this thing needs to play out a little more. This news is new, and many of us are frustrated with losing money. IF some of us get some of our investment back, and IF the hardware is truly opened up and passed along that's one thing. But I still stand by my statement that it needs to be "buyer beware" with this guy moving forward.
     
  16. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    This kind of thing happens often in projects like these more often than not. It does not mean someone had bad intentions, infact to the contrary, most small projects are all of the best intentions until you become aware of the daunting scope of the project. You see a hurdle as a task that takes just a bit more energy than you have at the moment, so you take a day off of it. The next day it is on your mind, ruining any rest you had from the project, and you let it slip another day. Soon it is a burden you wish you never embarked upon, and you let it slip further. Finally you break down, bite the bullet and let everyone know the project is canceled.

    This has happened to me several times in the past, because I bought a professional laser cutter almost 20 years ago, and everyone and their brother had their custom projects they wanted me to do for them. I have even had people ask me to build them a Vertical Lift Bridge, or Portland OR Train Depot, then I can sell kits of it. It looks like a cool project and I get caught up in the online hype. After I got several weeks into such a project, I come the the realization that I might only sell 2 or 3 of them, and I have to spend a month writing kit instructions, and I don't even want one for my own model collection.

    I come home from work with more work piled up so I skip a day or two working on it, I feel burden, tension, and stress every day. I get home from work that I have a TASK that must be completed, days go by, and I break down and have to let the person down, and they let their displeasure known online for all to see. It makes you feel like telling them, look dude, I'll pay you $100 just to shut up and not remind me of this whole nightmare. My name is MUD, I am a failure...

    Well, the point is unless you actually burden yourself with such a project, you will never fully understand how they can go south like this. Those of you that are involved in these projects are fully aware of the burden, and are much more sympathetic for the guy doing them, because you too have felt those burnout days and that you have overextended yourself. Some of you persevere (with unknown to others feeling of burden), some lay low for a while before continuing at a later date, and sometimes you just gotta throw in the towel.
     
    BigJake, S t e f a n, Sumner and 2 others like this.
  17. FlightRisk

    FlightRisk TrainBoard Member

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    A lot of time and money went into the project. I think David is feeling the frustration a lot of us go through at times. I'm speaking with him about options.
     
  18. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    It's all fine and good to get frustrated with a project you were not paid to do in the first place.

    But to take others' money, and then "lose interest" is a breach of contract, even if not in the legal sense of the phrase.

    Kickstarter duly informs participants that there are risks, and projects often fail.

    On the other hand, if he truly was making progress, but then realized he would not be able to deliver with the remaining funds, it is best that he stopped work, and refunded what was left of the funds to the backers (if in fact he did and does so).

    As a retired electrical engineer, I am familiar with development projects that, for whatever reason, failed to come to fruition. It is often due to more being promised than could reasonably be delivered. Interesting projects look "fun", when "challenging" might have been a little more accurate, and when luck does not accompany, enthusiasm turns to drudgery and defeatism, and looking ahead to the next "fun" project, with fresh arrows in the quiver.
     
    Atani and Doug A. like this.
  19. mrtinvan

    mrtinvan TrainBoard Member

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    Has anyone actually received a refund?
     
  20. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Not me,

    Sumner
     

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