Hello I just joined and have new track oval waiting for a train. Many engines offered on a certain auction site have either not been tested or do not operate. One seller admitted he has had to accept multiple returns and I would rather not go there. Is Hardened Oil Syndrome in a NOS engine a real condition and can't it be remedied with just a shot of tuner cleaner like I used on old turntables and electronic switchgear? I have taken apart S and HO and even my N engines to get them going but is that even possible on Z motors? Thank you all for being here. --Tom in Tucson AZ
Hi, Tom Yes, HOS is a real thing. I have not experienced it in any of my Marklin locos (yet.) From what I remember about it was Marklin used a vegetable-based oil on some of their earlier locos. I am not sure what years to be concerned about. The oil hardened into a solid mass. The loco will need to be taken apart and cleaned and re-oiled. It can be done at home if you feel you have the skills. Helmut's Hobbies in VA. can do the job if you feel you are not comfortable doing it. I don't think Marklin is using this oil any longer. It has been awhile since I bought any Marklin locos. The GG-! was my last purchase and it runs fine. Jim
Jim this helps me a lot. What is a worst case scenario on buying a used engine that has not been tested or does not move when power applied? Can a person DIY new brushes? I guess if armature windings are fried, forget it. I have to start somewhere and be brave I guess. --TH
Tuner cleaner is compressed air. You'll likely have more luck with a solvent. Get rid of it all before you lube up with fresh oil.
I do have canned air separately but this stuff has some alcohol or solvent in it. It works wonders on old turntables and record changers that are balled up. Another guy on another forum warned about removing the wheels and gears; they won't go back together easily. That is what most concerns me. Thank you ACPTULSA!
Tom, I've never dealt with it. The worst case scenario is a loco that doesn't work at all. You should be able to see the hardened oil. Having the correct tools is crucial. I believe there is a tool called a wheel-puller that will release the wheels. Personally, I am not brave enough to attempt this work. I woul send it out to be repaired. That is just me, though. Jim
Oh yes HOS is real. For a period of time, Marklin used an oil that hardened which binds the gears. It does not permanently damage the locomotives, but the locos will not run, or be very sluggish if they have this syndrome. To correct the issue, the old oil will need to be cleaned out, the locos re-oiled. We like to be upfront about these locos. Typically, they can be purchased at a discount since maintenance will need to be performed. This is the case with the HOS locos on Ztrack Resale. We actually call out HOS to be very upfront with customers. The site http://www.zscale.org/articles/revival.html has informative articles on cleaning and servicing Marklin locomotives. Some locomotives can be brought back to life quite easily. I personally have serviced quite a few of my old Marklin locos that had this syndrome. I have a bottle of circa 1985 Marklin oil that use to look like apple juice. Now it is more like black tar...
I bought a used old Marklin steam loco that was sold as having HOS. When I took it all apart it was apparent that the previous owner had already cleaned out all the old oil, but they didn't have the patience to properly reassemble the axles to avoid binding between all the gears/axles/linkages. So there was a lot of binding, which could still seem like HOS continued. So they sold it to me as HOS. With trial and error, I got it together properly. Now it runs well. But that brings up another point. When re-assembling an old Marklin loco to fix HOS, it sure would be nice to replace the 3-pole motor with a 5-pole motor. Where does one buy the appropriate new 5-pole motor once the part # is known?
At the OP: any solvent that leaves residue is discouraged; if it dissolves completely - give it a try. About disassembly - it's the belly of steam locos that you have to be careful with. Remove the lower pan and if the gears pop out - re-timing/quartering can be very challenging. Marmot ... 5 poles are going the way of the dinosaur. Many have been removed from Marklin's offerings just in the last year alone. I guess running a part number for 20 years isn't long enough? (Actually - that's pretty crazy to supply something like spares for locomotives for 20 years continuously - but marklin has been doing that!) ... Let me know specific model numbers and I'll be glad to inform anyone on availability ... I'm finding that some of the new motors come and go quite fast - see the motor for 88025 VW bus 296142 - already discontinued.
For the motor part Numbers check out http://www.zscale.org/articles/fivepole.html there you will find a list of Loco's, their 3 pole motor part number and the 5 pole upgrade motor part numbers. But be aware that Marklin has finally switched to using Can motors and some of the older 5 pole motors are no longer available.
Tom, a Seller need only touch a 9 volt battery to the wheels. It either wizzes or not at all. ACPTULSA: Tuner cleaner also has at least Silicone and usually solvents. Tom, just make sure any solvent says ‘plastic safe’. Almost all are these days. You can put all components, including the motor in anything you cleaner.
Tom, Here is a technique for cleaning locos without disassembling them: https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/cleaning-märklin-locos.122508/ Here is an article from ZTrain Weekly that addresses "quartering", or aligning the side rods: http://ztrainsweekly.com/2017/07/15/side-rods-correct-alignment-to-make-steam-locos-go/ I have been modifying several Marklin locomotives and find quartering not to be a big issue. Scott
HOS is mostly confined to pre-5 pole motor locomotives ca 1972-1999. Unless one of the new 5-pole motors was relubed with the old oil. When Marklin converted to 5-pole, they also changed the marklin 7149 lubricating oil formulation. I believe that the white crusty rocks left in the loc after the old oil evaporated is parafin. Good news "was" that HPI-racing Nitro 9062 Cleaning Spray dissolved those rocks, no tear down: Quote: a multipurpose cleaner for R/C cars, safe for plastics and electronics, cleans and degreases gas and electric motors, wires, receivers, commutators, bearings, speed controllers, connectors....eliminates unwanted carbon deposits on the commutator and brushes. end quote So GOOD, and Never harmed a Marklin paint job, crazed a clear plastic inner frame or plastic shell and HPI Nitro dissolved (or put back into solution) that crusty white stuff, without a gearbox tear-down. dries quick and greaseless. And that was the good old days. HPI-Racing (Nitro) cleaning spray was discontinued. but R/C cars have not been discontinued, so I suppose the R/C car owners have switched to a different cleaning spray. (I still have a few cans of the old so haven't the need to look for the new version they use) their cleaning needs are similar to electric locomotive owners. I don't relube with marklin 7149 oil, its applicator leaves big blobs and it is creamy, like creamy italian salad dressing. I use Atlas conducta-lube. it comes with a pretty nice metal applicator, but I transfer it to a needle point applicator bottle. Thin and clear oil. safe on plastics and conducta to electrics. But it is thinner than 7149, you need to relube after 10 hours with conducta lube, not the 20 hours of use the Marklin 7149 is supposed to last. Lastly, no cleaning is complete until you examine the commutator for clean gaps. brush dust, especially when combined with overoiling, fills in those gaps with black crud and then your motor runs both hot and poorly. 3 pole motors have a wide gap, take a safety pin and clean the black brush/oil crud from the gaps, 5-pole commutators have very thin gaps, use a thin needle to clean inside the gaps. Then spray the commutator gaps with nitro, make a thin strip of paper towel, spray that with nitro and run through the frame so it is rubbing (and turning the commutator.) The result is a polished copper commutator with clean gaps that before was blackened. Clean the brush dust off the brushes and reassemble. The Nitro spray is also handy for the can motors. I received a gp38-2 with the worm gears filled to the gear edges with black crud. A shot of Nitro down through the top of the loco chassis had those brass gears as clean as a whistle and shiny as new, without disassembly. Ran like new when put back on the track. If your Marklin was used as a uboat and you now have rusty gears in your gearbox, try Kano Kroil penetrating oil. There is a gear up in the chassis in 81419, 81438 steamer locomotives (American 10-wheelers) and similar European locomotives that is fixed, you ain't getting that gear out. So put a couple of squirts on the gears, let set 24 hours, and see if they dislodge/turn, if not, a second treatment should dissolve all frozen rust. Again, safe on Marklin chassis, but I have never had a painted shell on when using Kroil, so can't comment on it's safety to paint. If i wasn't receiving so many jury-rigged and shade tree mechaniced marklin locs; they are fun to repair (Crocodiles excepted.) But dealers are already reporting the old five and three pole motor'ed railbus have no more replacement motors from Marklin, some dealers are making noises that replacement five pole motors for the F7's may be kaput from Marklin, so I am transitioning into the joy of almost maintenance-free can-motored locos with pleasure.
Larry, I have yet to try this, but I put a link to your video in post #12. How high up on the locomotive does the liquid reach? Scott
