As close as the real thing for me. I don't usually pay attention to all the very small details like correct decals or the horn is in the wrong place, but things can seem off even as an un-experienced model railroader. As an example; when I showed a comparison of a 56' micro trains tank car and an atlas 25,500 tank car to my sister she noticed the micro trains looked too high and wasn't a fan of the plastic looking paint appearance of the MTL. Same is true when you compare a trainworx semi-truck diesel to a bachman or almost any other brand of semi-truck as the trainworx blows them away. I'll run Kato, Atlas and now scale trains because nothing else quite compares to them in terms of detail and performance. When I find products that are superior I tend to buy those and replace the inferior products because it looks and feels closer to the real thing. That's what drives my enjoyment of the prototypical endeavor. One of the biggest constraints I would probably say is budget; although, I'm thankful to be living in this era of N scale. Imagine someone from the 70s, 80s or 90s being able to see what's available nowadays.
I don't equate tiny detail with prototypical. But what happens when I try to haul one too many loaded hoppers up a grade... that's prototypical.
Being fairly close is about as good as I expect to see. There are so many things we just can't 'do' in N, that being a 'rivet-counter' is a rabbit hole to madness. That being said, I do try to get the big glaring details right for my proto-free lanced little fantasy. It does help a bit in getting the right 'feel' for what I am trying to achieve. But, of course, there are always going to be exceptions. I really like the Pennsy stuff, and it was never in Eastern Montana. Oh well, going to run it anyway. There will be those that will whine, but it's my private little layout, so I don't let it bother me. Input is always good, but nitpicking isn't. My NP boxcars do NOT have the classic rounded roof. Yet. I may get around to fixing that some day. It always comes down to priorities, getting the layout up and running. Then getting the further trackwork fixed up. Then scenery, then....... As many have stated, if it ceases to be fun, it's no longer a hobby, just a drudgery.
For me, close enough is good enough for now. I have a long ways to go before my skills are good enough to attempt adding details.
You know, this thread has reminded me of a funny one that happened to a local HO guy here 20 plus years back. There was a great hobby shop here that is now long gone (RIP) and a guy brought in some autoracks he was doing to show off. Another customer was very critical of them, especially the paint color. Went on and on about how it wasn't even close to what it should be. In my book, that is saying the paint color was definitely not prototypical, right. Well the modeler just said thanks for that feedback and went on about his day. The kicker is this modeler worked at what was then Thrall Car in Cartersville (Now Trinity Rail) and got the paint he used on his autoracks from the paint shop there. It was the yellow they were using on the racks they were building at the time. Not really sure if you can get a more prototype color than that. Just goes to show you that no matter how hard you try, it all comes down to the eye of the beholder. Btw. I saw those model autoracks and there were beautiful!
Hi Mike, I'd say according to this photo I saw from the Strasburg Railroad, You Nailed it https://fh-sites.imgix.net/sites/40...homas.jpg?auto=compress,format&w=1600&fit=max
Long ago I knew a guy that offered superb custom painting. A customer gave him a number of brass locomotives to be painted and upon his return to pick them up, found "problems" with each one and refused to pay until they were fixed. His complaints were completely unfounded and it didn't take long to figure out that the customer was in over his head financially and couldn't pay for the work, though he wouldn't admit it. To protect the innocent I won't explain the details, but the custom painter found a way to turn the screws and within several days, the customer returned, alarmed and with cash in hand.
In N scale, our ability to be “prototypical” with hardware is heavily dependent upon what is available, unless one is a skilled scratchbuilder. Because of this, I allow my sense of “prototypicality” to be, ummmm, “malleable,” shall we say. I can illustrate this with a couple of examples: Im not a rivet counter, but I like a basic sense of “rightness” in things. Well a few years ago, I got a Life-Like Heritage Steam C&O Kanawha 2724… except it really isn’t. As beautifully made and detailed as it is, it’s really an NKP Berk, they all were. Its light is smokebox-mounted (Kanawha’s had ‘em pilot-mounted), and it had the water dome ahead of the sand dome. And, all black paint, and no white rims on the wheels. And that offended my sensibilities, my sense of “prototypicality.” And after six years out of railroading and getting back in six weeks ago, I jumped on what was possibly the last Bachmann Kanawha in the country. (Also #2724) DCC & sound, and I’m happy. Two engines of the same number, though, is a problem, and the Life-Like, as nice as it is, has been gently retired. (Two pieces of rolling stock of the same number, though? not a problem.) At the other end of the spectrum? I like big articulateds and I can-not lie, My railin’ brothers can’t de-ny, When big steamin’ mutha rolls in-to the place, And puts two sets of drivers in-ya face, You get CRANKED!! But I digress… back to the story. I’ve given up hope of an N scale Allegheny, short of brass. But how to satisfy my articulated jones? I was looking at Challengers for sale at the time (circa 2015), and saw one for the Clinchfield railroad. Didn’t even know where that was. So, I looked it up…Tennessee, Western North Carolina, Eastern Kentucky…hmmm, that’s getting into C&O territory…I wonder if…so I went to the online archives of the C&O Historical Society…and there it was…two pictures of a C&O Kanawha double-headed with a Clinchfield Challenger in Elkhorn City, Kennnn-tucky! This was BETTER than prototypical - this was JUSTIFICATION! And one Clinchfield Challenger became mine. Now, probably no Clinchfield Challenger ever ran the rails of the New River Division of the C&O, but two pictures of engines of the two roads on one track was enough for me to slam the gavel down and pronounce a sentence of ”prototype enough for ME!!! Case dismissed!” and walk away pretty pleased.
I could see someone doing that just to duck with peoples head. It looks like it’s made out of some 4” steel plate.
I’m nothing if not a crowd pleaser! Here, a bit more: “My home boys tried to warn me, but that Rapido you got looks (so hook and horn-y!) “So, fellas: (YEAH!!) Fellas: (YEAH!!!) Wanna see some hard-drivin steam? (HELLYEAH!!!) “Then wheel it (wheel it) Drive it (drive it) Roll that big pounding thing, back on the track!”
When I first saw this subject as submitted by George, the mtntrainman. I thought to myself, self here we go again. George, " If you look long enough you will find a prototype for something you want to do on your layout", I did say that but it''s a reflection of something someone else said. He has passed on and is most likely following along with a twinkle in his eye. That would make him older then I am. Does that help? Now whether you actually model it after the prototype, or make a caricature of it. That would be your business. After all: It's your layout, you make the rules and you set the standard. Now with that said. Here we go!! I think back to the early Toy Train enthusiast and the definitions they used. They, the definitions, may not work today as we seem to be running head long into redefining everything. It used to be. Prototypical was modeling a locomotive, motor, passenger car, freight car and crummy after the real deal. In other words modeling after the prototype. With all the details in place and nothing missing. Which worked real good for the stoves / steam engines. Once the diesels hit it all seemed to fall apart and everything took on a toyish or caricature look to them. Minitrix came out with covered wagons / F type motors that looked toyish. You can still find them and buy them today. Little or no improvements over the years. I had some minitrix F9's that had been painted into D&RGW with the four stripes. When Kato came out with there D&RGW units and they set beside each other. Well, that didn't work. I sold them off after putting a Life Like mechanism in them. At least I could run them. Back to the history books. Well, the N Scalers weren't happy with such sloppy craftsmanship and started hollering for more prototypical equipment. Atlas, ConCor, Life Like, Model Power, Aurora, Rivarrossi and even Bachmann stepped to the plate and begin to produce some respectable head end equipment. But they ran like toys and they were oversized. Jerk, stutter, lope, run fast and hard to slow down. Aiiyiiyii !! Kato came along and reset the bar or standard and everyone of the model makers finally got the hint and got in line. Now we had a working chassis that could creep along at slow speeds and do it smoothly or prototypically. But that wasn't good enough. The fine folks that made transformers, added momentum and operations took on a whole another meaning. Some refinements needed but we were finally getting there. Era 60's through the 70's and into the 80's. So, before this Can Of Worms or Pandor's box gets out of hand. Looks like it has. LOL i define prototype as being after the one to the one foot scale, with all the details and exacting dimensions. Precise nuts and bolts. Those who do are called...well...I think you know. Now, how about you?? If you haven't modeled after the big boys, the real deal. Then you are operating a Toy Train layout. There's nothing wrong with that. What isn't fun about that? It was Toy Trains that got the ball rolling, in the first place. Freelance, is something in between Toy Train Operations and Prototype. I operate in that zone of influence. "Protolance" works here, nice one SP Wolf. Well played. Some of my train stuff is toyish as it comes from the late 60's. While some of it is more current. Now being current doesn't mean it is prototypical. At best most of my stuff is a Caricature of the Real Deal. Harrumph. Now you can play with this in your head all you want and it will still come out the same. Unless you can convince, influence others, as I've seen in some clubs. Where most of the members set about to redefine the lingo, definitions and change it up. Well, here we call it... Look I operate my trains prototypically. Is there such a word? Are they modeled after the prototype. In most cases yes but they fail to be absolutely prototype. That is a real word. Oh and George, I don't see anything on your layout that isn't modeled after a prototype. You could be criticized for playing with toy trains but we all do that. After all since they aren't the real deal, the one to the one foot scale, the prototype they are just toys. You need to sign on as a docent at a Railroad Museum to play with the prototype's. I hope that helps.
Model and run what you want, and quit worrying about what others might cheer or jeer! Whether you are happy is what it's really all about. Be a happy model railroader. Just because we all (self included) love to offer critiques of others' layouts/plans, doesn't mean they can't be happy unless they adopt our suggestions. Unless you are developing a model railroad for someone else who is paying you, do what you want. Take what you want from offered suggestions, and happily ignore the rest. Happy railroading! p.s. What was that song about a man who happily sang beautifully in his church and at family gatherings (IIRC), and finally got his chance to sing in a big public venue, only for a reviewer to absolutely destroy him in the next day's paper? Yeah, let's not do that (note to self.)
I try to never critique unless asked to. Even then I never get 'nasty'...I try to be helpful. Another 'critique' I got when I was building THERR was when I put double crossovers at each end of 'Lucky Penny Yard' so trains could get across to both yards. I got the proverbial "Thats not prototypical !" " The only place on the real railroads that use double crossovers is near railroad stations !" I just grinned as I happily ran trains all day. 'Rule # 1' around here doesnt always mean "Its my railroad and I'll do it my way." Rule #1 around here is.... "Never cook without a shirt !!!!" .
George, on those double crossover switches. You haven't looked long enough and far enough. They are out there on the real railroads, usually found in train yards. Do I dare say just like yours. Not so much in new construction but in the older train yards were space was a premium. Seems the big boys had the same problem we do. Nice thread and you aren't the first to ask that question. I have a thread here where I posed the same question. Not alone on that one either. Quoting: Agreed!! See signature.
All Great Replies! Everyone seems to9 have their own personal view of how Prototypical they like and will respond too. I 'Bash' cars, and try to get 'Close'. I KNOW what I build is Not a perfect rendition of the REAL...But, I'm happy if it looks''"Close'!
