00 gauge, H0 scales' weird British cousin

kevsmith Apr 18, 2022

  1. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Some of you may be unaware of the differences between the modelling scales of the USA and continental Europe on one side and the United Kingdom.

    The difference is a historical thing dating back the the early twentieth Century and the modelling standards layed down by people like Henry Greenly

    So using the same 1 1/4" 32mm track gauge 0 scale in the U.S is 1/48th but in the U.K it is 1/43
    9mm track gauge N scale is 1/160th in most parts of the world but 1/148th in Britain
    Gauge 1 45mm is 1/32 in most places but 1/30.5 in the U.K

    A lot of this comes from the size of very early electric motors and the difficulty of fitting them into the small British protoype locos

    But the real doozy is 00/H0. So same 16.5mm track gauge but H0 is standard everywhere at a constant scale of 1/87. The U.K scene is dominated by 00 which is 1/76th and I mean dominated! The few attempts to launch British H0 have always met with failure. So 4mm to the foot it is.

    So I'll go on a journey showing some of the 00 I've been involved with over the years and the odd bits I'm occasionally doing now. Writing the Nukes thread has had a little bit to do with it and I've got our Brooklyn 'mythering' me (Yorkshire phrase) to make him a 00 Layout

    So as a young lad it had to be 00 and the market was dominated by Triang railways on one side and Hornby Dublo on the other. Triang were cheaper with lots more plastic used and Hornby were the classy diecast bodies with better valve gear etc, This quality difference was refelcted in the price

    This is my old Hornby A4 'Golden Fleece seen with a Varney 0 scale 4-6-0 and my Z scale A4

    [​IMG]

    So my early layout was set track on a 6x4 ft board but I soon chafed at the crudity of it and started to get more ambitious. Superdetailing was the first avenue I took, taking standard RTR locos and enhancing them

    This started out as a model of Evening Star, a 9F 2-10-0 that was the last steam loco built for British Railways. Like the protoype it was finished in Gloss green with a distinctive plastic look and feel to it

    All the moulded on handrails came off and new wire ones fitted, single chimney, Chopper coupling at the front replaced with screw coupling and lots of weathering

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I didn't take many pictures back when I was a teenager so many of the models I did went unrecorded but I did take this which was a much more ambitious job.

    71000 Duke of Gloucester was the 8P 4-6-2 prototype that came out as just the same time British railways announced the modernisation plan that would replace all of the steam Locomotives (17,000 of them) with Diesel and electric. I took a razor saw to a Triang Brittania 4-6-2 to reproduce it with its Caprotti valve gear, double chimney and bespoke tender

    [​IMG]

    I was quite happy doing this when one day I went into a model railway shop and there was a box on the shelf. it was a Gem white metal kit for a Midland railway 4-4-0 that just need assembly and the fitting of a Triang 4-4-0 chassis. so I bought it. Turned out there was a lot more to it than that

    More tomorrow
     
  2. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Well.. the wonderful world of British white metal loco kits

    A whole cottage industry had sprung up of one man band enterprises producing kits of the huge variety of British locomotives. Anybody with a modicum of pattern making expertise could buy a rotary casting machine and the requisite moulding rubber and go into production.

    Some were very, very good. Some were, er, problematic.

    I'll not pass judgement after all this time but here are some of the ones I did

    The Midland 2P 4-4-0, a Gem kit that rewarded a lot of preparation before painting

    [​IMG]

    The famous Caledonian Railway 4-6-0 'Cardean'. Mainstay of the Caley's part of the 'race to the North' on the West Coast main line. This was another Gem kit designed to fit the Triang B12 chassis. The Caley Sky Blue livery looks odd but is correct

    [​IMG]

    more tomorrow

    Kev
     
  3. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    just to be on the weird side, the italian manufacturer Rivarossi produced some kind of "in between" HO and OO in Italy from the 60s up to the late 80s. It all started because they could not fit their (huge) motor on exact scale locomotives.
    By contrast the more generous size of US locos allowd Rivarossi to use standard HO 1/87 on their US models. (Do not panic!).
    Can't upload images here due to my company security and crappy PC, but these fit nicely with the british ones, so that I added a repainted British Stainer 7F to my (old) Rivarossi roster as a War department loco left in italy after WW2.
    Here the link to the picture, the brit loco is on the far right side, as you can see it fits nicely.
    [​IMG]
    Here you can see an oversized one with correct HO scale cars in tow. Notice the height difference between the two roofs.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
  4. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Rivarossi also did the LMS Royal Scot in a hybrid scale 3.8mm to the foot if memory serves correct along with some superb lined LMS coaches. Still see them on auction sites occasionaly
     
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  5. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Another Gem 4-4-0. The North British railway 'Glen' class 4-4-0. Seen on the test track that ran round two walls of my bedroom back in the day

    [​IMG]


    McGowan models did a kit for the WD 2-8-0 which was white metal and designed to fit a JOUEF chassis and tender drive

    [​IMG]

    Because it had a tender drive and a freewheeling loco it had a habit of locking up the drivers occasionaly and just skidding along!

    So the biggest issues with white metal kits were boiler halves that didn't fit together meaning lots of filling and sanding. Boilers that were oval not round. Cabsides that were too thick, Complete kits where there were no locating lugs cast on at all and some crude detailing

    A selection with one of the better ones, The DJH Caledonian Class 60 seen lurking on the left hand side

    [​IMG]

    Second from the right is another path many of us went down, Motorising Airfix plastic loco kits

    More soon
     
  6. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, they used something around 1/80, but it really depended on the model, for example the coaches were often 1/87 in length, but about 1/80 in height to get on par with the locomotives. German and US locomotives were in correct 1/87....
    not sure about british locos like the Royal Scot, but I think 1/76 was enough even with the smaller brit loading gauge.
    Here the pics,
    ganci x rr6.JPG

    On the left a standard european coach from Rivarossi with the hybrid 1/80 scale, on the right another similar coach from another manufacturer in correct 1/87 scale.
    As you can see there is a major difference in height (apart from the details since the models have at least 30 years between each other), you can not comapre in the picture but the length is in correct scale.
    I overcome this by not having the same type of coach or locomotvie in "two scales", and in cases like this, not to put these close together or on the same train.
    Just as a note, all Rivarossi european models from the mid 80s are in correct scale.

    Besides, even if these are at least 40 years old they do not look that bad.....and run perfectly. Here is my "hybrid scale" express on a group layout.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  7. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for filling us in. I was curious about that OO scale. I won't be getting into it but it's nice to know.
     
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  8. porkypine52

    porkypine52 TrainBoard Member

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    Just a quick question: What was the coupler type used? Close up images and explanation PLEASE.
     
  9. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    kevsmith would be more accurate, but I try

    UK OO scale models have these big weird couplers called Tension Lock couplers, that you can see on his pictures, i think these come from the early 60s if not even earlier
    At this link some examples
    https://newmodellersshop.co.uk/hornby_spares_couplings.htm
    European models have a smaller hook and a loop on top of it to secure coupling
    Both of them are very far from a replica of the original screw and buffers coupling we still use here in Europe.

    Some European manufacturers developed what are called "close couplers", at the link below (in german) most examples:
    https://www.stayathome.ch/Kupplungen.htm
    of course these are normally not interoperable with each other, except for some "universal" couplers from ROCO and Marklin that also couple the standard ones.

    Some UK and european modelers use the US style knuckle couplers (kadee makes some that fit in the standard european coupler receptacle), but either they use short wagons and cars (and I REALLY mean SHORT), or very wide curves, otherwise these will hit the buffers and derail the train.

    I almost came to the decision of cutting all buffers and assume Europe evolved to automatic coupling so that I could use KDs.

    Kev, up to you, (did not want to kidnap your thread)
     
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  10. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Couplers Eh?

    N scale, no problems everybody uses the Arnold coupler.

    00/H0 total randomness

    Hardcore 00 scale modellers will use 1/76th working screw and 3 link couplings like the protoype. The 9F in the centre of the fan of loco picture above is fitted with a working screw coupling 'Uber Fiddly'!

    But

    Left to right. Continental coupler, Modern class 156 DMU fitted with Kadee #5 with the trip pin cut off. Bachman's version of the tension lock, Accurascale's version and the very clunky Triang/Hornby original
    [​IMG]

    There are also a lot of weird coupler designs around and recently Magnetic couplers using neodymium magnets are appearing. (I've been using them in Z for years !)

    So I was getting more and more into 0 scale where etched Brass and Nickel Silver kits were at the forefront so missed out on the development of etched and hybrid 00 kits but still have this

    A Peter K Highland Railway 2-4-0T ' Gordon Castle' to do one day before my eyes and hands give up


    [​IMG]

    The prototype

    [​IMG]

    So I don't know how much you Know about Airfix Plastic Kits? Back in the day They were the biggest polystyrene kit manufacturer in the U.K their range was vast. Airplanes, Ships, cars, figures in scales from 1/600th up to 1/12th. During the 1960s they took over the Kitmaster tooling of Railway vehicle kits in 00. They were mainly U.K prototypes although they did some nice European designs as well

    A cottage industry sprung up making motorising kits for these.

    More in a minute (going out to the shed to get another beer)
     
  11. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    The best example was the Southern railway (Not that one!) Schools class 4-4-0

    here is one that was completeed as a static model but is already being given the treatment. The handrails and moulded in lining has been removed

    [​IMG]

    Sadly I can't remeber who did the etched chassis and valve gear conversion but I can remember it was a bit of a pig

    Scale wheels and scale lining

    [​IMG]

    Seen on the portable 00 garden layout I did as an experiment

    [​IMG]

    As I said before many of the models I did in 00 before I started modeliing bigger and bigger scales I didn't take photos of but there are a couple of rare picture of my old workshop/Bedroom when I was a teenager and still living at home

    A real mish mash
    Lots of my Nickel Plate Railroad H0 models (inspired by John Rehors' magnificent book about the line) and many of the models I have described with the move into 0 scale on the right. I have got a thread in the 0 scale section on trainboard about all that lot

    [​IMG]

    So my 00 days back then circa 1966 to about 1974 taught me a lot. Low temperature white metal soldering, etched kit construction, Body filler! and not being afraid to take a razor saw to anything

    I'l leap forward next to present times and some of the 00 models I'm doing. Supposedly for our Brooklyn burt there will be a lot of 'Grandaddy' input. It will take a look at the huge improvement in RTR models in the scale and how it is possible to model niche railways off the shelf

    Dapol Class 68. 68 001 Evolution.

    [​IMG]

    The prototype was sat outside my office window all day today

    Kev
     
  12. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    It is the same the world over in railway modelling but the improvement in quality of RTR models is very impressive

    Triang/Hornby, now known just as Hornby L-R early 1970s example, 2 different intermediate examples, and a modern replica of one of our Mk II coaches we used on the Cumbrian Coast line

    [​IMG]

    Same with freight wagons



    [​IMG]

    Left to rght..very early Triang example showing advanced Mazak rot, open ended axleboxes and well rusted tension lock coupler, next, later version still with open eneded axleboxes ( The wheelsets were moulded as two halves and the steel axle pushed through, They did not run well!) The Scarwood Private owner wagon is a more advanced wagon design with better printing and pin point axles, Next, A Bachman LMS Container flat with better detailing and printing. Behind and above is a Bachman model of one of the FNA-C Nuclear flask wagons I used to maintain. This has much, much better detail and printing and in the right foreground is one of Accurascales' exquisite PFA wagons which my engineering team team maintain to this day

    More soon

    Kev
     
  13. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    As I faded away from 00 there was one more little detour. Before etched kits becme a staple a couple of small time manufacturers made Nickel Silver and brass 'sets of parts' rather them kits.I can't remember the manufacturer but this started as an LNER A3 'Flying Scotsman' and got converted, with a lot of head scratching, into one of the rare LNER P1 2-8-2s

    [​IMG]

    sadly, never took a picture of it finished

    Kev
     
  14. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    From an avid consumer of AIRFIX airplanes and military vehicles as i was a very young kid, thanks Kev to make me recall these.
    Back to trains I have some dapol kits i got during one visit to UK that intended to use on a metric gauge HOm diorama. Now this is on the back burner but may go forward in case i will have to go TDY somewhere for a few weeks.
     
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  15. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Our Brooklyn has a project box of Airfix/Dapol kits to do including the Loco shed, station and signalbox but he really needs to finish his 1/600th HMS Belfast first. It is a Holiday weekend so he will be having a sleepover so I'll push him to get a move on

    This is him proudly holding his 1/32nd Aston Martin DB5 he did. although to be honest I sprayed the gold paint, he hasn't got the hang of aerosols yet but he was only 9 when this picture was taken, Everything else on it was his own work

    [​IMG]

    He has done a black wash on the wire wheels since this picture was taken to highlight the spokes. Another skill he will find useful later on

    Kev
     
  16. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Leaving the historical stuff aside for a while it might be interesting to see what I'm up to now in 00 now . Limited in scope, because my main interest will still be Z scale for the forseeable future ( although Arkeangel, my new Russian dockside layout will be scrapped over the next few days :) , Brooklyn has a growing interest in having a 00 scale layout which has set me off on a few projects'

    If, we do Rampside, and I'll come back to that later on, He is going to need a lot of rolling stock seen in the South lakes today. The DRS Nuclear fleet is pretty much taken care of, although he has to be extra careful with my Class 68s

    One of the most common seen trains is the Metro Cammell class 156 DMU. originally modelled by Lima and now tarted up and made by Hornby.

    An original Lima 156, although you can see evidence I have already started pimping it up, A huge void below the cab front and a less than realistic, toy like paint finish

    [​IMG]

    The same model, Now repainted in the new Northen Livery, fitted with Kadee #5s, Fitted with Mini Plows, painted in Hycote Acrylics and lettered with Railtec decals

    [​IMG]

    Looking at the real one the other day at Kirkby There a few additional lumps on the roof (GPS, Wi-Fi etc) that need adding

    Sister engine 156 472 heads towards Barrow through Kirkby

    [​IMG]

    More soon

    Kev
     
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  17. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    When I was ten years old I was allowed to spend my Christmas money on whatever I wished at a huge toy store in Sheffield callled Redgates. Triang trains were top of the list for me but the guy on the trains counter said to my Dad 'Get him this' It was a book called Triang Railways, The frstt ten year. I still have it to this day!

    [​IMG]

    rather battered as I got it in 1965!

    In it was a very detailed description of the companies history, the products and protoype information

    At this stage Triang and Hornby were rivals. Triang were the 'cheap as chips' play toys for Kids, Hornby were for those who had money.

    In the book was this page

    [​IMG]

    To me this was a revelation, Alter, weather and generally mess about a prized possesion, Stood me in good stead for the next 57 years of my modelling life. Anyway, Me and Brooklyn went to Ulverston (Birthplace of Stan Laurel and home to the Laurel and Hardy museum) on Saturday to do a school project He is doing. Nipped in to see Simon at Furness Models in his quirky shop inside Ulverston Post office. Lots of nice things but some were way expensive. But in a small box on a shelf was a 'Nellie' £15. Had to buy it for him

    [​IMG]

    Nostalgia unbound!

    In the background is another ongoing project. The Class 142 'Pacer'

    These Bus/Rail hybrids were introduced in the 1980s as a stop gap. Basically a Leyland Bus body mounted on a rail chassis and powered by a Cummins LT10 diesel they survived longer than anyone anticpated. Other railfans used to watch me filiming and photographing then and said "what are you bothering with them for?" " Because when they are gone, they are gone" I replied"

    [​IMG]

    So the Hornby model was quite good when it came out, Motor and gearbox could have been better and the Pad printing was a bit,erm, suspect.

    [​IMG]

    The one above was in the old 'regional railways' livery and I picked it up for abour £30 at a show. Time to get busy.

    Doors modified to current spcec. Headlights and taillights drilled out

    Extensive dunking and scrubbing in Brake fluid to get the OEM Paint off, Hycote paint platic rimer and Fiat Capri Blue, Tamiya acrylic purple and railtec decals. Now this by stage the herd had just 'Growed' Martyn King a local clunb member had seen my repainted 156 and said "can you do one of my 142s as well"

    [​IMG]

    Not quite complete but getting there 142 012. A unit I have known for many years

    [​IMG]

    Fitted with Kadee #5s. In the background the Z scale class 47s and 37s are out as I'm doing my first post Covid show in June with Republic Steel, my Z scale Steelworks layout

    More soon

    Kev
     
  18. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for sharing.
     
  19. kevsmith

    kevsmith TrainBoard Member

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    Another useful book is this one

    [​IMG]

    Written by O.S.Nock one of the U.Ks leading railway authors

    full of useful stuff

    [​IMG]

    You'll see they were a bit like Lionel in making novelty operating wagons. The exploding boxcar and the nodding giraffe car being the most notorious examples

    Kev
     
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  20. Mike VE2TRV

    Mike VE2TRV TrainBoard Member

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    Murgatroyd's? Snagglepuss would be honored!:LOL:

    I vaguely remember having a booklet from Triang in the 70's, with featured locos, cars, and track plans too - enough to make a ten-year-old dream!

    Those were the good times.:)
     
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