Just a heads up. Railroad employees are talking about striking. You might want to get to the grocery store and collect what you can to get you through. I'm not suggesting you panic buy... but get those essentials you'll need. Fill the pantry and hope that if they do strike, it won't last long.
Okay, here we go. Switch versus Turnout. My main objection to using the descriptive verbally "Turnout", it's misused by most model railroaders. It has been since the first Model Railroad wig wags came out in the 30's. The engineering departments call it a Turnout and you can find such on the Blue Prints. it's to describe the whole of the unit. Misuse of such would be, I'm going to run through the turnout, and see if the turnout man will throw the turnout. i made that obvious and i hope you can see the failure. I learned from McGoo a retired Southern Pacific and then Union Paccific Maint., dept head that when they install the "Whole of the Unit" they call it a "Switch Panel". That's new even for me. According to another friend of mine Chuck who worked for the Santa Fe Engineering department. They call the whole of the unit a Turnout. Once it is set in place you'll hear him refer to it as a Switch. Confused yet? The employees seldom use the word "Turnout". It's a "Switch". The Switchman, throws the Switch. Align the Switch works here. The Herder directs the Switch Crews to Switch 1 no, Switch 2 no, Switch 3 yes. In other words they will be spotting freight cars into Track 3 from Switch 3. You can hear all of this on your scanners. I've always said "It's a Switch" in the vernacular of the employees of the railroads. I'd use Rails here but most railroad employees don't like that ...either. So get on board or don't. That would be up to you. If you see me at a Train show shaking my head in dismay. It's most likely about the "T" word. I respect that it's your model railroad. You set the standard, determine operations and the verbally or linguistics you want to use. Why should I care? On my railroad in the tradition of the Moffat Men and Santa Fe family of Rails...oop's...I call it a Switch!! Now tear me a new one but don't get us locked up!!
It sounds pretty universal. The guys in the midwest and south east are talking about it as well as the guys out west Not looking pretty. Allegedly the government stepped in with a 60 day cool off and that is coming due. Details I'm not privy to but the rumors run rampant.
Just like how many foamers I see on the 'Net, daily, who post their photos and call NON-unit trains "mixed freights". (Do that in front of a professional railroader. They need a laugh.) They are "manifest freights". You will see their train symbol, such as on BNSF as "M-XXXYYY1-01". "M" for Manifest. Not a universal truth, Rick. I have some Northern Pacific engineering department blueprints, where they use "switch" in describing their Number 11, Number 10, etc, etc. In train orders, (which I have many tens of thousands), track warrants, etc, they will reference east switch, north switch, etc. Comments such as "industry spur switch at such and such is out service lined for main track and spiked". In engineering department track blueprints, track profiles, condensed track profile books, lands tracks & structures blueprints, right-of-way blueprints, you will see the notation "PS" or "P.S.", along with a survey stationing. Which is their abbreviation for "Point of Switch". Older blueprints might show "HB" or "H.B.", which means "Head Block".
Just got off the phone with George - Mountain Man. He and Jean are headed home. Give them a couple of days and he will be back here on Trainboard, to fill us in on his trip. He found out how the Native Americans learned to Smoke Salmon. Just hang it outside son and it will get good and smoked. The smoke up here is the worst ever. Eyes, throat, lungs all suffer when it gets this bad. More later!!
It's a TURNOUT ! End of discussion ! BTW..we are safely home. Over 2400 miles in 7 days. I drove almost all of it ( THE WIFE has problems with her feet etc. ) I will try to get back online tomorrow..or the next day. May take a few days for this old fart to recuperate !! Just a quick note: Rick is DEFINITELY a "Grumpy Old Man".... .
A couple of examples, which I happen to have uploaded already. I have many many more such references, many different dates, from across North America:
Ah yes the great switch debates. I dont believe I ever heard a switch referred to as a turnout in my career, if it ever was I don't remember it. Of course I may have blocked that part out too. Of all the times I took Track and Time, I never wrote down turnout, the DS always did and still does reefer to them as switches, as in track and time between east Dotsero switch no, and west Shoshone switch yes. A switch lined to the diverging rout was "reversed" a switch lined straight was "normal. Of course there are exceptions, where the normal position of a switch may be in the reversed position, you best consult your system special instruction, TT, General orders, Gen notices and so on. As far as a potential Lock-out or Strike, it am pretty sure it would be pretty much nation wide for class ones at least. I dont see it happening for very long if at all. They just wont allow it to last, it is just too damaging. But I can tell for sure the nations enginemen and trainmen are tired of being treated like garbage by these big outfits, I know it extends to other crafts, these are the ones I am familiar with. They are tired of the RR's forcing them to work sick and every day, sometimes twice a day if your tie up times are just right. It has been at a breaking point for some time, and needs desperately to be addressed, I mean when the RR's try to tell folks we dont work very much they are just plain lying, whats more it seems they want to count your time off sitting in a hotel room as quality time off, it is not uncommon to sit in that hotel room for 24 or more hours waiting on a train to go back home on. Yea vacation and PLD days are there to take, but they wont let you off to take them, even in the middle of the week. Its just needs to change. We got people working overly tired out here, and it is gonna lead to a CNN moment if you know what I mean. The carrier I worked for hired a class of trainees, and not one showed up for class, not one. I retired a couple months ago, there are people with 20+ years of service quitting, it is quite a miserable job anymore, some places worse that others.
Switch versus Turnout. Keeping it alive. Read the last several inputs and there's your proof when it comes to the railroads and there terminology. To all participants, Thank-you for that. George, isn't a railroader by any stretch of the imagination. He is a toy train enthusiast and that's a whole another discussion. All the model railroad wig wags are his influence. The real railroads are my influence. I'll stick with my family of railroad employees. I have no problems with George. The thing I like about him is you know where he stands. No hidden agendas. He and his wife would be welcomed back any old time. I like Toy Train Operations, perhaps the most leisure way to enjoy your layout. Besides Toy Trains is where I got my start. Sadly, what I have siting in the train room sure resembles a toy train layout. Sigh Time to go on Strike. Uhh...err maybe not. I do want to get it running again.
It seems the honchos on all sides have been summoned to DC to try and settle things. I hope it works. All the switch stuff in good humor of course.
Those are really cool documents Ken. The Form 31 from 01/04/1928 shows three Receivers. I hadn't realized that the Milwaukee was in bankruptcy reorganization this soon. I did a little research and found that they entered bankruptcy in 1925 and emerged from it in 1928. I also looked up a Form 31, wondering how it differed from a Form 19. I learned that a Form 19 was normally hooped up to the trainmen, but a Form 31 was a much more serious affair, with a stop of the train and signatures from the Engineer and Conductor. That made me wonder. What event would make a Form 31 necessary and would a Form 19 be less serious? No way!
I believe that forcing the train to stop, and the two mento come inside was an absolute method to ensure the information/command was obeyed to the letter. Any question about accepting that order was right then, and once they signed, the burden could not be laid anywhere else, should something happen thereafter. I have seen many times when signatures were "iffy". Where handwriting sure looks like only one of the train crew signed for both, or the agent/operator did it. The MILW got slammed twice. Research by legal professionals has proven the bankruptcy you noted was not quite justified. And partially due to what the USRA folks did, which did not help. Then 1929 slugged them again.
But Rick...we are all playing with toys trains ! Unless you are the guy who owns the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad and can play with the real thing...JMO
If I had to hazard a guess (and I don't, but I will), I'd say model railroaders adopted the 'turnout' terminology to avoid confusion with switches of the electrical variety, since we use both kinds of switch in pretty equal proportions. Sometimes we even use switches to switch our switches. Having to switch back and forth between one type of switch and the other type of switch in the same sentence is enough to make you want to switch your brain off for a while .
I play with a higher grade of toy trains. So much for that idea. We both buy Kato and other quality products that are nothing more then toys. But look at the fun we are having.
