Does anyone have any experiance with this kit or other Arbour Models kits? If so I'd like to know how difficult they are to assemble, how good the details are, any warnings or advice, etc
VGN, You ever put a Bowser loco kit together? If so, the Arbour is no different then that! I will say right off the bat, TAKE YOUR TIME! Do NOT rush this kit! It will run like a swiss watch if assembled right! You will need a good basterd file, a set of riffler files a small light ball peen hammer, and various drill bits small precission ones, and a rotary tool, a pin vise, and the normal exacto knives with the #11 blad, and other various blades. When doing the valve gear, you will need the Bowser rivet tool if Arbour hasn't included one for that kit! When setting the rivets for the valve gear, be sure to NOT over mushroom the end or the rods will not move freely causing it to restrict the motor and or not move at all! This is a VERY critical point of the assembly and will determine if its assembled right. Once done this can either move freely and allow the loco to run smoothly or if not done right it will show in the end! I would advise you to check each set perside of the valve gear to make sure it is smooth working. By installing it to the side of the wheels which it belongs and trying to roll the wheels with your finger if it rolls freely and no binding let it on and begin the next set. If not take off and make adjustments so that it does rioll freely while on the drivers, and cylinders. On gearing, make SURE the worm gear does NOT bottom out in the axle idler gear, this will cause it to bind and not allow the motor to spin the worm mated to the idler gear smoothly. Take a piece of thin wire .015 of an inch hard music wire (which I find the best for gear spacing) You can even use a piece of music wire .020 of an inch as well that .005 of an inch won't hurt nothing. As it will keep the setting of the gear adjustments from the worm gear teeth bottoming out in the idler gear or the teeth of the idler gear bottoming out in the worm gear. Make sure once done with the gearing an everything is set an adjusted and running smoothly you keep geased, this is a must! BUT do NOT over gease it! Just a thin coating of grease on the worm gear will do, being when ran will spread to the idler gear. In electric work, make sure all contacts are cleaned with fine sand paper, and or a wire wheel on a rotary tool to make good contact. These will need cleaned ever so offen or when you do basic maintenance. The motor itself, I'm sure is an Open frame DC-71 or even a DC-90, this you can use your own judgement to change or let alone, however on my Arbour Allegheny I have redesigned it to except 2 industrial 12 volt DC can motors with 2 flywheels! For that added power. The original open Frame DC-71 that came with mine was shot the comutator was burnt and all so.. I'm going to replace that with 2 of these can motors coupled simotaniously together, sort of like the motors in an Athearn DD-40, only with 2 flywheels! Any further questions feel free to ask them, I'll do my best in answering them, or you can use my e-mail link in my signature for further questions. Just remember 2 things in the assembly of your kits........ HAVE FUN...... &...... TAKE YOUR TIME A rushed assembly will lead to poor running capabilities
VGN800, email me the address of Arbour Models (and their emaill address) and the Model number and type of kit, engine, box car, etc. of your kit. Is your kit HO or N scale? Maybe I can help you.
Wow, thanks alot John, that's exactly the sort of information I was hopeing for. I don't see the rivet tool on bowser's website (Edit: Nevermind, found it), but I'll look around more, and of course see if one comes with it or not As for remotoring I'll probubly just replace the open frame motor with a can motor with a fly wheel if there's room without makeing major modifications, seeing as how this is my first steam loco kit I don't wanna push it. Anyway, once I get it I'll probubly have more questions for you, but for now, thanks Watasch, I don't have the kit yet, it's an up and comeing christmas present, however I don't think Arbour models is in business anymore. I've been trying to find their website with no luck and the few people I've talked to about it seem to think they closed up shop years ago. [ 11. December 2002, 12:34: Message edited by: VGN800 ]
Arbor is owned be Bowser now. They bought it a few years ago but do not have plans to produce kits. http://www.bowser-trains.com
Wow, that's promiseing news, if they ever do anything with it, would be nice to have a source for parts, and maybe they'll make a super detail kit for it Edit: ack, missed the "do not have plans to produce kits" part :/ Any idea why? Also, John, what kind of glue are you useing on your Allegheny? Or are you soldering? Would seem to me that soldering would be a bad idea on a white metal kit since it melts at only a little higher temp than the solder. [ 11. December 2002, 13:28: Message edited by: VGN800 ]
VGN, I soldier whenever possible! Altho, their is a exception (which you all knew) but in places I can't get to with an iron or the pencil iron or even resistance soldiering tool, I use a fast, hard setting epoxy if I can't soldier. I try to soldier tho, in every situation. It gets hard when things become really confined and tight. MAKE SURE you only use a little soldier as possible. To much will weaken a joint and not hold very good! And being so little is used, once attached don't get the iron against that location or anything or it will loosen it and have to be set in place... On the handrailing that goes out over the boiler, I wouldn't be to energetic to soldier this, your best bet is to set it in place tap the stanchions in the drilled holes in the boiler being they are like a press fit and will hold themself while your finishing them up and leave them loose till its all ready to be painted once aligned with the railing in them and striaght, glue with CA from the INSIDE of the boiler! And the drop of CA on the inside can be spread with a tooth pick using the point of the tooth pick, and insert it into the hole on the inside of the boiler DO NOT PUSH on the tooth pick or it will push the stanchion out of the hole and stick out further on the outside of the boiler where the wire goes through it. Make sure alittle CA gets to the end of the stanchion pin from the inside. Right before you go to paint, take a tooth pick again and some CA glue and put a small drop at each stanchion where the railing goes through (after wire hand railing is in place) to secure it and then wipe off all excess glue with your finger or something like a paper towel (being I've glued my fingers together already by doing this with my finger) But fingers don't leave fuzz or strings from paper towels or a cloth from the glue drying instantly and pulling threads out of the cloth and then having to clean that off. So fingers do the trick and the acetone "fingernail polish remover" does wonders! Also make sure their is NO metal FLASHING near or on the boiler to engine bed mounts or it will bolt up and sit loop sided. This is due from the flashing on the bolt mounting lugs and all clean these off flush. DO NOT shorten these just clean the mould flashing off the surface, don't cut into the surface at all or you will have the same problem, just harder to repair! And will have to be shimmed and cause more headache then needed or wanted! And If your Allegheny is like mine, you will have a really hard/stiff wire going from the loco's motor (out the back of the cab, or under the frame) to the tender, I didn't care for that to much as it was hard for the tender to articulate on curves with the loco, being the wire was stiff and hard it wouldn't pivot with the drawbar from side to side, and I replaced the wire with a softer, more flexable piece of wire, that will bend and not stay stiff! I done this also to all my Mantua loco's that have loco to tender wiring being dependant on the tender for electrical pick up! Also, keep all paint, dirt, and grime off truck frames, where they bolt to the frame of the car, as well as the pilot, and trailing trucks as these are electrified too! And the frame of the tender and where the pilot and trailing trucks mount. Where the truck is bolted fast. This is also a electrical contact that needs to be clean at all times to run well. I polish these areas with a brass wire wheel in my Dremel rotary tool set about half way on the variable speed dial to have the speed to make it really shiny, and not scuff or scratch this area so it wouldn't collect dirt an grime as fast. And help prolong the corrosion of these areas as well. I have seen oils and a type of grease that is for electronic use that is a conductor, this would greatly help in these areas, and help to keep corrosion down to a minimal stance and managable. As for Arbour, they are long out of business, as said by a few other members in this thread, they were bought out by Bowser MFG. So parts for these loco's are scarce to find. My Allegheny is missing 3 drivers! So. I'm going to replace all 6 with a Bowser set that is close to the size of the 3 driver sets I do have! Being the Allegheny's are 76 inch (scale) I have to match them up to the closest Bowser has! The only possible solution! As Bowser does not make replacement parts for the Arbour models! Chuck, I have given it thought to write a repairs Ecyclopedia, just not to sure on the copyright and all of it.... HA! But yes, I have given it some thought! I don't know what I may or may not do... but it be nice to make a set of Repair Ecyclopedia's for all brand names an scales! As I do repairs on everything... HA! I got a Weaver 0-6-0, O scale in the shop and 3 Lionel C-40-8's thats needing some motor work, and a G scale 4-6-0 that needs new side rods and one driver! The side rods on this thing is plastic!!!! And wore out! So, I'll have to order parts for it from Bachmann. As its a G scale Bachmann loco. [ 12. December 2002, 01:00: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
Thanks again John, it's good to have someone else haveing made the mistakes for me so I don't have to learn the hard way I won the auction on the Allegheny and it's in the mail, kit is complete and unstarted as far as I know, so at least I shouldn't need to try to replace missing parts.
Oh, I have another question John, how is the detail on the Arbour Allegheny? I mean with just the parts provided is it good or kinda in need of a few added parts to really be concidered a well detailed model?
VGN, Your welcome. Anytime, As I build an assemble all these type things for a living! On your detail question, its like a basic Bowser, you'll need to by detailing parts for it from Cal-Scale, to detail it up, altho it comes with all the "regular" detail parts, such as hand railing, basic pilot detail, bell whistle etc, you can add the extra brass wire "pipping", and more to scale details like the front end throttle, and overfire jets, and boiler wash out plugs and all. These all are detail parts made in brass by "Cal-Scale" which is also a department of Bowser MFG. But the basic kit isn't a "one-off" its not that bad looking for a diecast loco, and all so.. Not to much detail is cast-on tho...... It all is applied separately by hand! And makes a decent looking loco when finished!
"Not to much detail is cast-on tho...... It all is applied separately by hand!" Good! That means I don't have to file it off As for myself, I don't really have room for a layout (or money for one atm) so I concentrate on locomotives to run on other layouts I have access to. Have you started to detail this locomotive yourself yet? If so could you segest a few parts to get so maybe I could drop a few hints to people for stocking stuffers? I don't really know steam locomotive appliances as well as I would like to, especally when it comes to superpower steam. [ 13. December 2002, 20:41: Message edited by: VGN800 ]
VGN, The really only thing you'll have to file off and smooth is parting lines from the cast moulding... like dead center of the boiler from looking at it from above, their will be a line thats a mould separation line that protrudes up and out from the body, I'd file this smooth with a fine riffler file an then even alittle sand paper afterwards to make it contour with the boiler and not have the file gouges in that location so the paint won't show were you had filed. As for detail parts, all are Lost Brass Wax Castings made by Cal-Scale which is a department of Bowser MFG... Globe Valve, cored for .020 brass wire, part # 90385 Pipe Union, cored for .020 brass wire, part # 90376 Inspection Plugs, for the boiler above firebox, part # 13-269 Front End Throttle, for engineer side of loco, part # 190-268 Wash Out Plugs, for firebox, part # 13-271 Foam Spreader, for the firebox, below cab, part # 13-270 Starter Valve, for brakemans side of boiler in front of cab, part # 190-293 Pipe Union, cored for .046 brass wire, part # 90374 Nathan Injector, for under the cab detail, part # 190-260 Square Pipe Bracket, cored for .032 brass wire, part # 90303 Pipe Union, cored for .032 brass wire, part # 90377 Cold Water Pump, for under the cab detail, part # 90366 Pipe Hanger, cored for .046 brass wire, part # 90375 Pipe Union, cored for .046 brass wire, part # 90388 Trailing Truck Beam, under the cab detail, part # 13-279 Junction Boxes, for handrailing ends for the marker lights, part # 90367 Generator, and Generator bracket, for rear and lower cab detail, part #'s 190-234/90379 Prime Cylinder cocks, cylinder detail "bottom, underneath" part # 13-265 Lubercators, and brackets, for valve gear, mounts on valve gear hangers, part # 13-283 Vavel Wheel, part #13-272 Dome Covers, boiler dome detail, part # 13-266 Whistle with valve, boiler detail, part # 13-276 Pop Valves, boiler detail, part # 190-247 Marker lights, boiler front detail, part # 190-280 Marker light jewels, for marker lights (lens) part # 7550 Handrail stanchions, boiler hand railing detail, part # 6000 Articulated Power Reverse, boiler side underneath boiler walkway detail, part # 13-278 This is all I have for now.... Plus you'll need alot of brass wire in various I.D's for the fittings and Unions for all the piping work.. from, .020, .046, .032, and .015 (boiler hand railing) hope this helps!
Hey VGN800. I just noticed your "Where's my Virginian Logo?". You may just have three to choose from this morning . [ 14. December 2002, 10:10: Message edited by: slimjim ]
"hope this helps!" It certainly does Thank you! And thank YOU slimjim, I love these Heralds for avatars, it's a great idea, and I was sad when I saw there were no VGN Heralds. Glad to see that's been rectified, now I need to come up with an interesting sig
VGN, Your very welcome! I'm glad to be of help with detail parts! any questions as to where they go on the model once you got the Allegheny and some detail parts, feel free to e-mail me, the address is in my signature in red! I'll help with placement of the parts as much as I can.... BUT remember..... TAKE YOUR TIME, and HAVE FUN in doing the work, in the end the effects will be satisfying!
Hello, everybody. I would like to jump in here. I just found this site and am very happy to find it. I just posted a note over in the HO part about my Arbour search and thought I would check in here. I have had an Arbour C&O K4 2-8-4 kit for some years now. I started on it and have made many starts and "let's put this on the shelf for a while" stops. Those of you with Arbour kit experience will know what I mean. I just recently located a detail kit for this model, Arbour put out a 16 piece detail kit. I also have another K4 kit, so I decided to try to find the parts in the detail kit as individual Precision Scale, Cal Scale, Bowser and scratch-made parts. This way, I still have a virgin kit and detail kit. I also have a brass K4 that I have used to check out the location of the many parts and piping locations. Right now, I have most of the gathered detail parts except for the cab windows, I guess I will have to make those out of brass sheet. The ones in the detail kit are cast metal. I have most of the piping formed, I do this one piece at at time and then set them aside for assembly after I have all the details ready to attach. The frame and drivers are complete. I remotered it with NWSL motor and gear box. The supplied Arbour gearbox was pretty crude and I felt this concession to really great mechanism was necessary. I have also had to monkey with the sides of the frame to control the driver side play. The side rods on this model are pretty tight and the clearances at the valve stem attachment to the combination lever are very difficult to get to work without binding or hitting the first driver crankpin screw. After MUCH fiddling, I managed to get all this valve gear moving (Baker valve gear) but had to thin the valve stem housings down very thin. The bare boiler and frame with the unfinished tender run well now, so I am concentrating on the detailing of the boiler and cab. All in all, this has been quite a thrash, but slowly, progress is being made. I hope to finish this some day soon and maybe have a photo of it beside my brass K4 to see if anyone can tell the difference. Now, about my Rock Island R67 project, starting with a Bowser Northern. I have already cut the boiler for new spacers, located smoke box door fasteners, bought trailing truck wheels, fabricated the very prominent valve gear hangers................Well, it is bedtime. I hope to converse with some of you about the topic of steam locomotive kits and conversions. Great to find this site!!
I do know where of you speak Fred! I no longer have any Arbour parts though. Ebay is the best source now I guess. Welcome to the TrainBoard!
