When pulling locomotives out of a dusty storage box.....

DCESharkman Feb 4, 2023

  1. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    A funny thing happened on the way to loading my locomotives into ESU CabControl

    This is not a DCC issue, but an observation. I have literally pulled out locomotives that have not run in over 5 years. What I find is the the old Kato locomotives like the RS-2 and RSC-3 actually run like they haven't been dormant for 5 or more years. The same can be said for the Atlas by Kato locomotives. But what surprised me was how well old Lifelike SW9's etc also run well. I was afraid a lot to these units that have not been run in years would have issues. In the units that had issues, it was the decoder that failed not the locomotive.

    The ones that had the most problems were Atlas by Atlas locomotives, even with the motor leads soldered to the decoder correctly. Not sure whether that is a decoder or a locomotive issue. I will be trouble shooting later.

    This is also not to say only Atlas have issues, they are just more frequent than the Kato issues by a wide margin. I do not have but a handful of LifeLike switchers so they are not statistically relevant.

    You know you have a problem when you open a box and do not remember buying or installing decoders in the locomotives in the box. A typical box holds a lot of locomotives.
     
  2. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    How old are the decoders that are failing?

    There was quite a learning curve for soldering technology in the switch to lead-free circuit board assemblies.

    Not that the curve has flattened out completely yet either.
     
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  3. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    The age of the decoders is all over the map.
     
  4. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    I had a similar experience when I pulled my locos out of an 8 year storage to set them up in my cab control. Those that didn't work I tested on the original controller I set them up with to rule out whether or not it was a compatibility issue with the newer system.

    My Atlas locos with NCE decoders would not work only on the ESU but the ones that came with lenz were still fine. None of my MRC sound boards worked but then I had a hard time getting them to function again on the original controller which was a Fleischmann/Roco controller. The MRC locos were a mix of Kato and Atlas that I had updated myself and were working fine up to the point I stored them away. Finally one of my Fleischmann locos that came from the factory with DCC did not work but only with the cabcontrol. Not sure who made the decoder for it.

    No issues with Lenz, Paragon 2,3, digitrax, TCS/Soundtraxx or the life-like sound. My guess is that some of the early NCE, MRC and whatever decoder was in the Fleischmann loco, which were all purchased 2006-09, weren't compatible with the newer ESU system.

    I had read several different reasons as to why this was an issue (signal timing, track voltage) but no matter what they weren't operational with the cabcontrol so I wound up replacing the decoders.
     
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  5. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    This makes me wonder what I may be informed about when/if I'm able to get back to them. I moved in '07 and switched from N to HO DCC. Bought two steamers from Spectrum/Bachmann, a controller and 6 feet of track. I couldn't get them to run then and do to things out of my control they got stowed away.
    When I can get a layout will I be able to get them to run? Will those cheapies really work? Maybe I should just stick to the simple DC N scale that does.:cautious:
     
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  6. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

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    Corrosion could be the biggest culprit along with the solder issues. I have yet to find this on my locomotives as everything I have is newer and the decoders are too, but I have worked on old radios, CBs, video game consoles and auto electronics that were DOA from simple corrosion. Usually a bath in some vinegar, a good rinsing in alcohol and in the case of the video games some polishing of the contacts and they are good to go. Sometimes components need to be replaced, but thankfully our decoders do not have the "Capacitor Plague" as the older ones didn't use the type that were effected.
     
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  7. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

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    Bachmann Spektrum were pretty good back in the early 2000's and if they didn't work it was usually down to cleaning or the plug between the tender and loco that wasn't happy. Make sure the wipers on the inside of the drivers are clean and contact is good.
     
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  8. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    When I read issues like this with older locomotives and DCC components I wonder if I didn't make the right decision and stay with Analog DC.

    Reminds me of something someone said, "If it's man made it will break or fail". Go figure.
     
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  9. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yea Rick...you are to old to change to DCC anyways...:LOL::LOL::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
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  10. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    No! Not toooooo old. Out of that stuff people call money. You know the kind they print a lot of. I think!!
     
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  11. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    As of now, the only decoders that do not work are Digitrax. All the Lenz, TCS and Zimo decoders had no issues so far. The Digitrax may be the older decoders before they moved to the lead free solder or vica versa. The MRC decoders in the Athearn Challengers worked fine. As did the Paragon in the BLI Locomotives.
    I have no NCE Decoders at all. They did not meet my needs. I used Forward and Reverse Trim for speed matching. NCE had only one CV for trim and that was not good enough, because sometimes the locomotive speed was not close to equal in both directions. This was necessary for multi unit consisting.

    I am about halfway through my Santa Fe locomotives, I did finish all my AMTRAK locomotives and my Denver Rio Grande. But there is still a long way to go.....

    The big problem is me, and that I can not sit still for long periods of time. But it has to be done!
     
  12. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    What are the two most (in)famous words in digital electronics?


    Unsupported

    Incompatible.

    :D

    Doug
     
  13. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Lead Free?
     
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  14. Mike C

    Mike C TrainBoard Member

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    Easily upgradable
     
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  15. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    :ROFLMAO::LOL:! Good one @BigJake.
     
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  16. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    Should Work!
     
  17. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    I checked my database and my JMRI listing, and my decoder installs started in 2008 when I got my Digitrax DCC controller.

    The first units were all my Kato SD40's and SD45's that were not DCC ready, but had Digitrax DZ143 decoders in the fuel tanks. I have a few of those that have stopped working, they will be replaced by ESU decoders.

    They were followed by the Kato E 8/9 Units and the PA's with the board replacement decoder from Digitrax.

    The last units were Fox Valley General Electric ES-H and the Zimo MX621N decoders.

    So I have already weeded out the Digitrax decoders that have issues and will replace then with the ESU LokPilot versions. I am not that big on sound. Too many locomotives to worry about sound.

    And somewhere in this mess I created a misplaced a box of 30 Zimo decoders that I need to install.

    So the search is on!

    And still weeding out all the bad locomotives.
     
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  18. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    At least I found the box of decoders!
     
  19. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    If you want DCC, well I can give you a DCC system my friend!
     
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  20. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    David, Okay!! I was taught to respect a gift and accept it gracefully.

    What you got in mind?
     

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