DCC: What do I need?

Hi all. Yes, the thought of the freedom DCC would give is appealing. However, checking the prices of some of these systems caused a me bit of "Sticker Shock." Is that $200.00 for each (1) sound decoder from Soundtraxx?! Man, that's 3 time the cost of an engine! For that price I can hire 2 or 3 guys from south of the border to stand around all day going whoo - whoo, choo - choo, chuff -chuff, ding ding [ ] !

Seriously though, what's it gonna take, what would I need, to go DCC? I don't know all the in and outs, and what all the systems will or won't do, but I'd be looking to run maybe 3 or 4 engines at a time, eventually acquiring and maybe needing to equip 20 or 25 engines. More than that I do not know. Sound would be nice, but not at that price!

And too, what about retro fitting? I've got an IHC or Model Power steamer or 2, a Proto E6, and I just bought an MDC Old Time 2-8-0. How hard is it going to be to install a decoder in them?

I was eyeballing the MRC Prodigy, Atlas Commander and Digitrax Zephyr. What do you all think/have to say about them?

Compatability- will everybody's decoders work with everybody's controllers? Or are you stuck buying say Atlas (example) decorders because you have an Atlas controller?

Thanx, and take care,

Mark

 

Well, first of all, you can get the sound decoders for $140 or less (http://www.tonystrains.com - DSD 150 is $140, one of the top of the line ones). The thing about sound too is that it is most effective in steam locomotives, and the occasional diesel. I have a set of Proto GP9s, and only one of them has a sound decoder, but you can hardly tell that. Saves you a lot of money too.

The Proto E6 should be DCC compatible, with a plug in connector. Take the shell off and look at the circuit board, there should be an 8-pin piece of PC card sticking up, that is where the decoder plugs in.

As for some older stuff, the motors have to be isolated from the frame, but other than that, most everything is compatible. If you are not too electronically inclined for these older locos, most places like Tony's can do the installation for you. All new locos you buy should be DCC comaptible.

As for a system, out of those three I would probably go with the Digitrax Zephyr. I have not operated the Atlas or new MRC system, and Digitrax is expandable and upgradable, as well as having the biggest customer base for tech support.

And all decoders SHOULD work on all systems. There is an NMRA standard for this.

It is definitely the way to go for multiple control, and you will not regret the decision. Any more questions, this board will sure answer them.

 

El Paso: Two months ago I was in the same boat. I had been operating in DC so long I didnt know what was going on. I realized the operating advantages of DCC and decided to take the plunge. I considered Atlas, Digitrax, and some others. I have been reading and looking for the past year.

It soon became obvious to me that Digitrax offered the most in the way of operation, various decoders, customer support, accessibility to tech staff, expandability, and the most variety of starter sets.

I purchased the Super Empire Set in July and I have not been dissappointed one bit.

Before you purchase, I recommend you shell out 22-24 bucks and purchase the Digitrax "Big Book of DCC". Read it check out all the points that may apply to YOUR layout and the FUTURE of your layout. That way... you will have a good knowledge base as you start to consider this move.

-Kitbash

 

Welcome to Trainboard Mark! You will love DCC! Don't be scared off by the retail prices. I've dealt with John Eberle DCC, Tony's Train Exchange, and Loy's Toys, and all three offer great service and low prices, with John Eberle usually having the lowest prices. I believe he is selling the Zephyr system for $155. Don't even consider the other two (Atlas, MRC). Tony's sells the basic SoundTraxx sound decoder for $79, and a sound decoder for your P2K E6 costs $119. Remember, these are SOUND decoders, as regular decoders (without sound) go for as low as $12. With most sound decoders, you will also have to install a small speaker too, although Soundtraxx is making some decoders now with the speaker built in, truly plug and play! For now though, I would start simple. I'd call John Eberle (877-531-5275), tell him what you got, and see if the Zephyr will meet your needs (present and future). If so, have him send you the Zephyr and a plug and play decoder for the E6. Get your feet wet, discover the joy of DCC, and progress from there. You're in for a real treat!

 

I have used the Lenz (Atlas) system, and I would definately consider it for you. It's a very easy system to use and it, too, is upgradable. The Zephyr comes as a base station (sorta' like an MRC Tech power pack) but it doesn't include a handheld controller. Yes it is upgradeable, but you wanted "in " with the least amount of money (and the handheld would add more than $100). The Atlas system does have a few shortcomings (they all have some), but for a new user, it does what you need and doesn't cost an arm and a leg (and it comes with a handheld, I think a necessary part)
I haven't used the MRC new enlarged system, but the handheld is more complex looking and somewhat intimidating.
Please note that I do not have any of these systems -- I am a very happy NCE user -- however my module group has Lenz and I have found it very user-friendly (in that international symbol kind of way) -- put it this way -- after reading the instructions once, I was able to use all the important "driving" functions (programming will require a return to the instructions).

Most important to you is to actually try the systems you are considering. There are Yahoo groups for each of the systems and you can learn a lot by joining and looking at the files for each one. Don't be swayed by the installed base for each system -- most users of any system don't have any problems and just have fun!! Remember that all control systems have to conform to the NMRA standards and they all "talk" to any decoder from any manufacturer.

 

I have to disagree on two points:

1) the Zephyr is nothing like an MRC power pack and that comparison is only will create confusion. If you meant the MRC Prodigy DCC system, then the Z clearly outweighs the MRC in not only features but in upgradability.

2) A perfectly good UT-1 handheld controller, suitable for the beginner and compatable with the Zephyr, will cost $64.00 (or less), whereas if wishing to expand the Atlas system by adding a handheld (which offers only 2 functions) you'll be set back $100.00

Don't you believe that propaganda for a second. While there is a lot to be said for receiving the NMRA Conformance Warrant, it is absolutely NOT required that a DCC system have one in order to be considered a good or compatible DCC product. The simple thing is, there isn't a bad DCC system out there that I'm aware of and they should all be read about and compared, apples to apples, function to function, feature to feature, without considering the politics surrounding what the suspender wearing, cigar smoking old farts say is good to not.

(my apologies to all you suspender wearing, cigar smoking old farts as there is no offense intended)

El Paso - do yourself a BIG favor and dig into researching the systems yourself. Don't listen to any of us unless you're looking for explanations of specific differences or features and not generalities. Trust and be honest with yourself and I know you'll make the decision that's best for you, and you will then have YOU to thank in the end.

 

Prior quote:
Remember that all control systems have to conform to the NMRA standards and they all "talk" to any decoder from any manufacturer
----------------------------------------------------------------------Prior response:
Don't you believe that propaganda for a second. While there is a lot to be said for receiving the NMRA Conformance Warrant, it is absolutely NOT required that a DCC system have one in order to be considered a good or compatible DCC product.

New response:
I'm not quite sure how the two statements above relate to each other -- I didn't mention a "NMRA Conformance Warrant" -- I referred to conforming to the NMRA standards. Even without a Warrant, in order to be compatible, the manufacturer must supply a signal to the rails that any DCC decoder can interpret.

I was just pointing out that ANY of the control systems will work with ANY manufacturer's DCC decoder
There are still some people who think you need to use Digitrax's decoders with their control system(s) -- that may be the propaganda you refer to.

 

Welcome to the wild wonderful world of DCC. Do some of your own research and find a dealer that favor's more than one system. See if you can test drive a system, i.e., does the shop have a couple of systems set up or can you the direct to a club or other place that will let you check out a system. You are the one who will have to be comfortable with the system.

I would also suggest that you look at the operating manual. I know when I was looking I was able to go to www.ncedcc.com for NCE's manual and download it. I found NCE's system and manual to be the most easy to use and it is written in plain english. I didn't have to go out and spend another $25 for a translation.

What system you go with is your choice, but do your own investigating and ask around.

As for decoders, you can pick up basic three function decoders anywhere from $15 to $20 for most models. I would go for the three function decoder for most of your fleet. Four function decoders run from about $20 to $30, these would be good for leaders in your consist if you plan to run ditch lights, strobe lights, or beacons. Sound decoders go for about $125 to $170. Sound goes best with steamers. I have one sound equipped steamer and I have an F-7a with a dummy b unit. I plan to mount the speaker in the dummy b unit.

When considering a system, you should consider what more you will get for your money if you get a full system or a beginner's system. You might be penny-wise but dollar-foolish.

 

Thanx for all the input guys. As for trying out the systems first hand, alas, there is only 1 "real" train store here in El Paso, and only 1 hobby shop (where everyone is more into R/C cars and planes), neither of which are in to DCC. The next closest train store is in Las Cruces, but it's a small shop with no layout. I guess I'd have to drive up to Albuquerque (4 hours) to find anything else. So, I'll wait on the Zephyr reviews from all who purchased one.

In the meantime I did order the "Big Book of DCC", so I'll start educating myself when that arrives. Thanx again, and take care,

Mark

 

Welcome to the 'board. As you read through all these posts, keep in mind that everyone is right. What you need to figure out is what's right for you.

The single most important thing you must do is visit club/layouts/stores with various brands of DCC. Trying them out for an hour will not help you a lot. Virtually all brands can be up and running in a few minutes. As long as you can walk and chew gum at the same time you'll be operating a train in the same amount of time.

Realize too, that your needs and wants will change as you gain experience with DCC. You need to be comfortable operating the hand held unit. ie can you deal with push buttons or do you like the feel of a rotary throttle. These are just a few of the questions that'll come up.

Finally go back to paragraph 2 and make it manditory!

Good Luck

 

I don't think wireless is overkill. It's all about enjoying your railroad isn't it? Since you have an around the room layout, it seems to me that wireless would be the way to go. Otherwise, you might get tangled up in the middle with other operators. I use Digitrax and it works great. The DT400R is awesome. Consisting is a breeze. I know money is always a factor, but the golden age of model railroading is here. Save some extra pennies, and take advantage of everything that's available. Currently I'm saving my pennies for a PTC turntable indexing unit. Sure, I saved a lot of money by using the Walthers motor, and aligning it by sight, but I know I would enjoy it more by letting the PTC do it for me. I say go for greatness Hemi, and get the wireless system.

 

I believe they all offer radio wireless rather than 'non'.

Information I have is that the NCE system is the only one that does not require you to plug in to the layout to acquire a locomotive, to turn control over to someone else, or to program (though some programming on a programming track is preferable). All three makers have dedicated forums on Yahoo! Probably worth having a look in their archives since these questions crop up quite often. Or if you like living dangerously ask them yourself .

As to whether it's worth having radio at all - it seems some people swear by it and the rest swear at it! It is a relatively new thing and there are certainly some bugs. I'm tempted (and my layout is smaller than yours) but I'm going to let the nutters iron out the wrinkles for a year or so . I'd suggest getting a 9ft lead and waiting.
To that end the NCE Procab can be bought as the standard 'wired' unit and you can buy a radio kit for it later (there is space inside already for the circuit and batteries, only the aerial needs adding externally).

 

Hemi,

I have Digitrax. One of the options is infra red. All the throttles come infra-red ready, except the low end budget ones. In the old days (eg. brands like "catnip") you had to point the throttle dead on the smallish spot to activate the trains. I run this at a friends home on Friday nites. However the new infra-red is much superior to this old stuff, and you can bounce off walls and ceilings, much like your tv surfer remote control. Trying aiming it above the tv on the ceiling, and you will see it works.

I have a layout that is in a 7 by 13 foot room so I am planning to use infra-red. You just have to purchase the infra-red receiver from Digitrax (something that is amazingly cheap) and you are away to the races.

I emailed Digitrax about a year ago and told them of my set up and that I was open to radio control if they could tell me a benefit that warranted the extra cost. Their reply was that infra-red would work just fine in my scenario.

This means that if you buy Digitrax, you will be buying the Empire Builder or higher.

 

My layout is 19x25, with a to the ceiling divider running down the center peninsulsa. I have two IR receivers, one in the valance at the end of each aisle, and this has given me trouble free IR reception. As long as the IR emitters in the throttles are pointed up and not at the floor, there is no need to aim them. Since Digitrax radio still requires plugging in to acquire loco addresses, I see no reason for the added expense. When the 2 way radio comes out I may reconsider. I really don't find it objectionable to plug in for this however. I don't think you need EB or Chief to use IR, Zephyr should support it, you need to buy a throttle, DT300 or 400, 100 if you can find one.

Gary

 

Hi all. Monday I mailed a check to Loy's Toys for my Zephyr. Knowing the first production run was gone, I e-mailed Digitrax late yesterday:

I received this response earlier today:

So, hopefully only a short time until they ship from the dealers. Hope I have my track laid and trains running by then.

Take care,

Mark

[ 19. October 2002, 02:17: Message edited by: El Paso Mark ]