I am building my first layout with multiple switches and turn outs. My question is Remote switch machines work on AC, Can DCC operate remote switch machines, when locomotives work on DC only?
Not quite sure I understand the question... ...not sure why you'd buy DCC just to operate switches when there are switches that could do it for a ton cheaper.
Not sure I ubderstand the question but offer this. Yes you can operate turnouts with DCC however and DC locomotives on a DCC layout. However the real benefit to DCC is the ability to operate multiple locos on a layout without the need for blocks. DCC Turnout control is expensive, so if the only reason is to operate turnouts remotely your better off sticking with DC and running the turnoutts with AC. IMHO
I believe some DCC accessory decoders (which are use for controlling turnouts, etc) have volt-free contacts, so could switch an AC operated turnout motor. Others may use the 'DCC' power, so could not. Does that help?
Ok, here is my question in two parts, first I want to place decoders in my decoder ready frames. Second if I have multiple turnouts with no block(s), can I operate the switch machine with DCC or should I just use the old standby?
The answer is yes, you will need to purchase additional electronics such as Digitrac DS2 or DS 4 stationary decoders to remotley switch the turnouts.
The question to answer is: Why do you want to use DCC to control turnouts? Some folks want to control turnouts from their DCC throttles, some from computers (automated operation or virtual CTC panels for example). A lot of folks don't see the need to do either and prefer local control via hand throws or remotely via fascia or control panel mounted switches or push buttons. If you really have a need to use DCC, then, as has been pointed out, you will need stationary decoders such as the DS54 to convert DCC commands to switch machine control voltages. The voltage required by switch machines is a separate issue. Basic twin coil switch machines (including the Atlas machines) are just electro magnets and can work on AC or DC (either polarity). DC Power packs provide AC because it is easier and cheaper, not because AC is required per se. DCC decoders support twin coil machines with DC current. So do capacitive discharge systems. If you use a stall motor "slow motion" type machine (Switchcraft or Tortoise), they need a steady DC current, the polarity of which determines the turnout position. Most DCC decoders can support this type of switch machine as well via configuration options. If "the old standby" for turnout control works for you, then keep the DCC for the trains.
Mr. Wrinkles. You are quite right, some switch machines operate better and more reliable with AC power; Arnold and older Roco come to mind. ZIMO suggests in such cases to use an ordinary transformer with a bridge rectifier instead of track power to power the MX82 accessory decoder. The ZIMO MX8 accessory module lets you set a CV so the output to the switch machine is simulated AC, for the same reason. Regards, Art Zimo Agency of North America http://www.mrsonline.net/
Ok I rest my case, it seems that I should just use my remote switch machines in normal AC, I guess If I wanted to spend the extra money I could program my turnouts. Is there a suggestion on AC transformers to operate switches only? Or can I find rs232/scsi for track programming?
Mr. Wrinkles, It takes time to learn the language of any profession, or in this case a hobby. This being your first layout, there appears to be 2 problems: 1. We, the ones with the answers, don't understand the questions because of the language difficulty. 2. You, the one with the questions, don't have a full understanding of what you are asking. The question, "Is there a suggestion on AC transformers to operate switches only? Or can I find rs232/scsi for track programming?", makes very little sense. Are your switch machines solenoid type? If so, then I would recommend you obtain an old toy train power pack and use the "accessory" outputs for your power source. You also might want to consider a "capacitor discharge unit" with the power pack. These are also known as snappers. CDU's provide more power to the switch machines over a shorter period which gives a more positive change in switch position but also prevents burning out the switch machines. If you are using Tortoise type stall motor switch machines then let us know. The second part of your question, "Or can I find rs232/scsi for track programming?", completely baffles me. RS232 and SCSI are both communiciation protocols and have nothing to do with switch machines. If you are interested in computer control of your layout or programming of your locomotive decoders with a computer, then you might need to talk about RS232 and SCSI. For right now, there is no need to worry about these protocols. David
A general reply for those lurking and reading. Computer and/or throttle throwing of turnouts can be very handy in some circumstances. When more than one turnout is thrown at the same time, the proper term is "power routing" (at least that is Digitrax terminology). One circumstance where power routing can be handy is in staging. Thus part of your layout is computer run, not the entire layout. Staging is where you park trains to simulate trains coming and going from distant points, thus you bring out one train at a time and you may/or may not bring in one train at the same time. So my staging at the "North" end of the layout hold my south bound trains and the reverse is true for my "South" staging - heading north. If you have limited area for operators and your layout is medium to large, computer staging may be your answer. Because your walking area (aisles) is limited reducing the number of operators maximizing the operations (most stuff running at one time), you want your human operators to do the most "fun" part of operations - running trains on the main and switching. My layout is an example of this. The layout could easily handle 6 or 7 operators, however my aisle walking space for operators can only hold three reasonably - maybe 4. With reduced crew due to lack of aisle space, a computer operating staging is very helpful. Lets say "Joe" brings in the North bound freight train to the siding heading into staging and parks it in the siding. The computer can have another train pulled out of staging waiting for Joe to leave with it. When Joe leaves, the computer brings the North bound freight into staging without any human intervention. This computer operation "quickens" the pace of a layout. You can also have a layout run by a computer, something I was considering doing. In this scenario, a computer would take a train - lets say a passenger train - and run it through the layout, having it make appropriate stops at the required stations. Thus, in this scenario, the computer acts as another operator. However the expense of this computer running was getting high and the time involved to install this would have been to great - since my son will be leaving the household soon and I want to be running some trains with him before he leaves. The reason it is expensive is that you have to acquire software to run the layout, then add decoders at every turnout affected, install block detection in every block affected, etc. Some react when they hear computer running, thinking this means the computer takes over the entire layout - which you could do - but for many of us it means having the computer act as another operator or two, when you don't have enough human operators. So if you are home alone in your computer room, you could operate your layout alone with the computer running a couple of run through trains enabling a more realistic experience. The technology is now available to do this, but as I mentioned before, it ain't cheap. Computer running of a partial or limited area of the layout - such as staging - is much more realistic in terms of cost and time.
Hi Rick, thank you for your understanding of helping me learn the lingo on this forum. I am going to just worry about installing decoders on my engines and learn how to remotely operate my turnouts. I have allot to read and experiment. I will continue to ask questions, I just hope people will be patient of my lack of knowledge. Have fun on the rails
Mr. Wrinkles, Forums exist to teach - ask away. I'm not a techy geeky kind of guy so there are others here much more qualified to answer many questions. At that point, I just remain quiet....lol!
