Anyone else notice this?

friscobob Apr 20, 2003

  1. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Saw this on the Athearn list at Yahoo!Groups, and wondered if anyone else has had problems finding the blue-box rolling stock? FTR, I prefer the blu-box cars over the R-T-R and (yeesh)Genesis cars.

    Subject: Blue Box cars harder to find?

    I tried to get some AFC covered hoppers (Part no. 140-1928) in CSX
    yesterday from several online sites (Note: No LHS in area). Most did
    not even list the this car. Walthers said they had it at $7.25 but
    was disconitued when sold out. The only places that said could get it
    were the ones that use Walthers as a supplier. Trainworld was a no go
    and so was Firstplacehobbies. While I was looking for these I noted
    that Athearn doesn't make much in CSX now if ever. I also noted
    several others Athearn cars were discontinued when sold out.

    It seems that the blue box is becoming harder to find. I should have
    picked some up at the last train show I went to.

    Here is what I did to test this. I went to Walthers site advanced
    search. I selected freight cars, athearn (140), and typed covered in
    the description. I got a whole list of Athearn cars. Here are the
    numbers that are discontinued when sold outaccording to Walthers
    site. 1660, 1671, 1905, 1917, 1921, 1927, 1928, 1942, 2902, 2904,
    5302, 5303, 5316, 5319, 5323, 6121to23, 6125 to 27, 6130 to 41, and
    6143 to 45. That is 35 cars by my count. There 31 cars that weren't
    listed as discountinued.
    I worry that this will be a trend.
     
  2. Mike Robertson

    Mike Robertson TrainBoard Member

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    I got this on the railroad-line forum.
    Yes it's a problem.

    As the manufacturers jump on the old "short-term greed wagon", the simple kits that many of us depend upon, will disappear.

    The frenzy is fuelled by the Yuppies and DINKS of the hobby, who are elitist and deep-pocketed enough to buy fleets of RTR cars in the USD$30+ price bracket. Their busy, busy lifestyles prevent their assembling a kit, and besides, the detail they absolutely must have, doesn't exist on those icky old blue box kits.
    ( Check out some of their wants 'n needs any old time over at the Atlas forum.)

    The Irv Athearns and Gord Varneys, God bless their souls, are no more. They've been replaced by typical corporate MBA's, who don't even need to shave yet, and are perfectly willing to preside over the demise of the hobby, for short-term profitability.

    The existence of the Athearn blue box , and MDC lower priced kits, and other such items, is what made the hobby affordable, especially for those moving up from trainset toys.
    Lose a lot of those people, and the hobby must go into decline. Decent lower-end locomotives have all but disappeared already.

    Leisure-time budgets are a lower percentage of take-home earnings for most people these days, due to so many essentials costing more.
    It's a shame.
    Model Railroader's monthly sales have dropped what, 45,000 issues a month from 10 years ago ? About 20% ? That's only partly due to competing publications, a LOT of it's due to affordability, and people not getting in to the hobby as the old-timers pass away.

    The average age of model railroaders is higher every decade....and that's all one needs for proof of the decline.

    Glad I'm old and don't need to buy any equipment any more.
    regards / Mike
     
  3. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Other forums (fora?) have suggested falling back on MDC and Accurail car kits. I have models from these manufacturers, and I admit they're good- also not high-priced. As much as I like the MDC and Accurail, I would still hate to see the blue-box kits go the way of cabooses and four-man crews.

    Or is society gone so darn instant-gratification, I-want-it-all-and-I-want-it-NOW that the mere act of putting a few pieces together to build something is beneath them? :mad: [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Better step off the soapbox and cool off.......today IS the anniversary of the Ressurection of the Prince of Peace, and anger isn't called for.
     
  4. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    It isn't anger F'Bob, it is just life in the present U.S.

    Most hobbyists would rather punch a key than smell glue if it required holding two pieces of something together for a minute or two. That may have been fun for we who did not have money thrown at us, but today's "kids" are as you say, only interested in their own interests. Case in point: Try to drive on a freeway and not get frustrated when some yuppie cuts in front of you then hits his brakes. Try to stand in any line without one stepping in front of you because what he has to pay for is more important then where you were in line, you can just wait on him. Lets face it, our time is almost over, and are in the way of the new computer yippees that would rather talk to an image on a screen than look another person in the eye. These hobbyists where never taught to play mumbly-peg, or play tag, or sit in a porch swing and talk while watching a beautiful sun set, or marvel at tiny fish in a stream, or play marbles, or look at clouds and try to find animals up there, or look for shooting stars, or try to identify birds, or slide down a grassy slope on a cardboard box, or make cars out of mud and bake them in the sun. They never got to push Tootsie-Toy cars and trucks along roads they scraped on the dirt and made the motor and shifting gear sounds in their throat. They never played like their own hand was a huge crane lifting a boulder into their little truck then hauled it away along one of those roads. Each of my Tootsie-Toy cars cost ten cents, but now they go for up-wards of $40.00 each even if they are loosing most of their paint. About the only thing that is still around for them to laugh at, is when they have suckered you out of a buck! They have told me they would rather have a new computer than have a child. So that is where our nation is going.

    And that is why I am really enjoying my trains so much. It is more enjoyable than being around that type of people, and I am well aware that they feel the same way about me, while they are waiting for me to die off, so they do not have to pay any more social security taxes. Sheesh! That's gratitude for you!
     
  5. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Geez Watash, I'm nowhere near as far down Life's Highway as you are, and the vanishing blue-box has got me stirred up!! Here I am, yelling at my kids to "TURN THAT SCREAMING &$(& DOWN!!". Just like my folks did when I was 18.

    I've never done mumbledy-peg or making cars out of baked mud, but I HAVE made trains out of different colored pieces of Play-Doh; build roads in the sandbox; pretended I was in the cockpit of an X15 while swinging high on the playground swing............ all by using something we all have but don't all use: imagination.

    The combination of imagination and memories is part of the magic formula that makes many a great model railroad. Many a building has been scratchbuilt, many a car or locomotive has been custom-detailed, painted & decaled, and many a detail part has been scratchbuilt.
    Now I admit to owning a couple of Atlas HO scale freight cars and one LL Proto1000 car, and I do like their detail work, but I cannot build an entire freight car fleet with those cars due to cost. I still miss the "blue box" kits, which, I'm sure, are sneered at by those who tackled the Ye Olde Huff-n-Puff kits (I built one, and can appreciate both the difficulty factor as well as the satisfaction of completing such a car).

    One has to wonder if Merle Haggard's song "Are the good times really over for good?" were sung about us.
     
  6. GP30

    GP30 TrainBoard Member

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    I usually don't buy the old craftsman railroad car kits, as usually my hobby store doesn't even carry the stuff to put them together, if they even have the kits. So I'm generally stuck with standard Kits. I Almost always buy Athearn or MDC, so at least I can have SOMETHING to put together. :rolleyes:
     
  7. BrianS

    BrianS E-Mail Bounces

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    It was mentioned on another forum by someone close to Athearn that if they relied only on the "Blue Box" line they would have been out of business years ago. Like it or not, this is the direction the hobby is going. Maybe it's time y'all took up scratchbuilding?
     
  8. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Have you ever tried making a mold from Play_Do, dry it out hard, then cast it in lead?

    Just before it gets really hard, you can work in rivet detail if you are careful.

    You can also add other shapes to the mold that will become part of the shape you need, such as mounting lugs...

    It copies a part fairly well but needs a bit of clean-up because the surface is not shiney.

    From the metal piece, you can then remove unwanted details too.
     
  9. Benny

    Benny TrainBoard Member

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    Haven't been around lately but that is mainly to a communication problem between my computer and certain parets of the internet.

    I love the Blue box, I made sure to get most of the cars I wanted early on in my first days of the hobby. One car I collected heavily in are the ATSF Steam Era AAR Box Cars, I have 10 right now, they make a nice train...and I think This train will go behind my Challenger.

    Only sad parts is that right now, I cannot even think of adding more cars due to different things like life expenses outside of the hobby, but when I do have the money I am certain the blue box will be gone.

    I cannot find the ATSF on the LHS shelves anymore, but that is mainly because I clean them out...If it was ATSF, a reefer or a boxcar, and steam era, I had to have it. Those days are pretty much over, as now I am more concentrated on the fact that I need space for trains period.

    I picked up an Ambroid Dry Ice car off Ebay in a lot of older craftsman type cars, they were kind of beat up but otherwise with a little work they will be nice. The worst part about this Ambroid car is that the seller advertised it as a box of scrap. Imagine my surprise when I got it! There was even a pair of metal sprung trucks inside that box. Now the only thing keeping me from building that car is the fact that the resale value is too high for me to fathom building it. If I do anything, I am going to get scale lumber and using the plans and included wood as a guide, I am going to build this car without using the kit materials just so the kit lasts a bit longer...they are getting rarer, so I might as well not screw it up.

    I have enough kits right now to keep me busy for quite a while, wish I had more of the Athearn AAR boxcars, but then I would have to store them some place and right now that isn't such a good Idea.
     
  10. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Well, I don't ncessarily like it, and I'm sure others don't as well. I'm not wanting Athearn to forget about the RTR or Genesis line, but remember the blue-box is a great entry-level kit for newbies, as well as us old farts who are somewhat resistant to change (like it or not ;) )
    I'm not the Big Cheese running Athearn, but if I were, I wouldn't be abandoning the blue box any time soon.

    Tell ya what- you do a scratchbuilding project, and we'll do one (as long as you're throwing down the gauntlet). Otherwise, a remark like that is kinda flippant at best. Now painting & decaling the cars I want, I've done- hey, I model Frisco, and for some cars it's the only way to get what I want. And it's cheaper to work on a blue-box kit (or even a LL P2P kit) than an already-put-together car.
    I'll bet the railroad you model isn't flush with ready-to-run rolling stock on the shelves.

    I may buy some of the RTR cars in the future, and I can make room in my budget for such cars (not necessarily the 35-dollar Genesis cars).
     
  11. Shannon

    Shannon TrainBoard Member

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    Well gents and ladies we do have an issue here. I have ben modeling for about 45 years. When I started buying car kits they were Athearn kits and Athearn locos. Why?, because thats all I could afford at the time. And I remember the comments from the old timers in the hobby then that these new plastic car kits were going to spell the end off the hobby.
    Well 45 years later here we are talking about the same stuff. I have built some of the first yellow box Atheran kits and I still have a couple and then on to the blue box and MDC kits.

    For all of you who will only build scrach built kits, I say thats great for you, but I can not because of some medical problems I had as a child. So I build the blue box and other kits so I can see the fruits of my lador quickly. I do super detail some but for the most part its put them together , put on the KDs and sprung trucks if I have them and lets see what they look like.

    Yes the hobby is in decline, but have any of you looked out of your own windows today, theirs lots of unemployment or under employment in this country right now. And what suffers first?, hobbies.

    We need more positive words to the people comming into the hobby about how great things will be when they have been modeling for as many years as we have, not negitave comments about the demise of a certin product. Times change as so must we. If we don't we are in lots of trouble.

    I like others don't need to buy equipment any longer. I have enought to keep me busy for years. As for Athearn, I have seen the line go down in quality for a few years and I will not buy the expensive ready to roll kits. But if they think that is the produck that will keep them alive, so be it.

    Lets face it group, we all love the hobby and THAT is the only thing that counts. [​IMG]

    Shannon

    WP LIVES [​IMG]
     
  12. William Cowie

    William Cowie TrainBoard Member

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    Smelling glue? Hmmm… I wonder if that could be the reason for the name calling I see in this thread?

    There is no question about the fundamental issue. I see the same writing on the N Scale wall with Intermountain kits becoming harder to find. And yes, it is a saddening and frustrating trend.

    However, I am a little perplexed and disappointed at the enthusiasm with which certain board members resort to name calling and attributing evil motives to selected groups, primarily Athearn and yuppies.

    I spoke to a local hobby shop owner who is not replenishing his Intermountain kit inventory. He says they simply don't sell. Micro-Trains hasn't made kits for years. I can only assume the good folks at Athearn are responding the same way. But why is it necessary to get personal and call their competence, ethics and allegiance to the hobby into question? Do you seriously suggest they have a meeting on a Monday morning with the first item on the agenda: How to Push the Hobby Into Decline? Get real, fellas.

    When they have to make payroll, their employees want money, because they have to put food on the table. And as somebody said, they don't take nostalgia at the Safeway. How is that greed or short-sightedness? Would you rather they didn't make payroll? Or lay off people?

    The irony is none of the lamenters seem to have taken the time to think things through a little. Did they consider that perhaps the added cost of assembling models probably makes them less profitable to manufacturers than simply selling injection molded sprues in boxes? Did anyone ever ask a manufacturer if they’d rather sell kits or RTR? Nah, thinking and asking questions is less fun than simply getting personal and running others down. And smelling glue :D

    Next group of evil doers: I am a card-carrying DINK yuppie (yep, MBA too). Am I the reason you can’t find blue box kits any more? Come on guys, can’t you do better than that? I admit to my share of 9-to-5 modeling (earning money 9-to-5 which I use to buy RTR models). Has that now become the Unpardonable Sin? Have you NEVER bought a RTR car? C’mon! [​IMG] When we're not cutting people off on the freeways we yuppies buy kits and smell glue too (ask Alan – he has to deal with us! [​IMG] )

    And what’s this about these pariahs "only interested in their own interests." Let’s see - isn’t this whole thread about YOUR own interests? :confused: Why is it OK for you to be only interested in your interests, but we can’t? (And no, I don’t get what being cut off on the freeway has to do with Athearn taking blue box kits off the market – or is it that smelling glue thing again here?) Can we chill out a little?

    As I said earlier, I am in the same boat as you, with my IM kits seemingly going the way of the slide rule and steam. And I’m just as sad and frustrated. I am doing what I can - I called IM and asked about kits. Then ordered a good quantity (and glue) from a dealer - the old MBA paying off for the hobby again! [​IMG] If enough other people do that, the kits will survive. If there are not enough of us, they won't.

    Either way, can we please lay off the name calling and the sweeping simplistic generalizations? Easing up on the glue smelling won’t hurt, either! [​IMG]

    (Sorry Watash, you just left that one wide open for someone to drive through! :D )
     
  13. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    You are right Willy C. I left it wide open.

    I also spent over 50 years in manufacturing as a Design Engineer, Engineering Manager, Chief Engineer and Plant Superintendent, and sat on the board involved with "How to save or make more profit for the company".

    The Board of Investors always voted to cut anything that did not return them a profit on their investment, period!

    We had to cut out parts and assembly costs. We were required to Design for Robotic Assembly, Design for Assembly without the use of fasteners, Design for Ultra-sonic welding, remove packing by use of vacuum formed pocket inserts, reduce the amount of metal in exchange for plastics, to save on freight, and leave out certain pieces that could be sold separately "Details", instead of included.

    They advertised certain items as "Limited Runs" then warehouse the rest of the production until closer to Christmas.

    And finally, to train foreigners to run our machinery that was to be shipped to them for our production because it would save the company money and would allow the company to raise the price again to our customer.

    Many Market Researches were made to see what the market would bear, then the price was raised to that limit.

    Why? Because we were inundated by younger bean counters who eventually took over the company controls. Those kids were not at all willing to make a comfortable living like we were, they wanted all the money the market could possibly bear, which pleased the investors!

    I saw the upper management get shoved aside because the company was not charging the longtime customers as much as the company could have.

    There was no feeling, nor did any of these new kids care, what happened to the customer list, nor to any of the older hands getting close to pension time.

    The new kids waited until several of the older managers were scheduled to retire, then demoted them to a lesser position, so the company would not have to pay as much pension to him. Then they fired some just before they would have been eligible for pension. Then they finally cut out pensions all together, and never refunded any of the money we had been having held back from our paychecks for that either.

    Yes sir, I certainly DO know what I am talking about, I was there!

    I was told to my face that "In today's business world, there is no place for honest business as we knew it, there is only room for the one who is most powerful".

    That turned out to be driven by pure GREED!

    I went to school as the professors were just starting to teach us that the only way to stay in business is to take advantage of everyone you can by paying late, collecting early, cutting quality and selling short quantity at the same or "Improved" price.

    It is the reason you paid the price of two pounds of coffee in the same size can, but there was only 30 ounces of coffee in it. 16 ounces is a pound. A court case caught that one, so they went to Kilograms to confuse people.

    4 ounces is the standard serving yet many items are packaged at 3.2 ounces and still are at the same price. Look at your cereal box!

    Look at the freight we saved the company by getting rid of those excellent heavy Zamac sprung trucks with metal wheels! We saved a bundle by getting rid of the automatic screw machines making metal wheels, and not having to carry one inventory for the grounded to the axel wheel, and another inventory for the insulated wheel, and the insulation and assembly. Besides, the plastic wheels were already insulated, so it made no difference which wheel went where, so we saved by cutting our inventory cost and production cost in more than half, because we could injection mold several ounces of wheels for the same cost of turning just one wheel out in metal, and the plastic didn't weigh squat.

    You don't like kits, well guess what!...

    Now you buy a READY-TO-RUN FINISHED engine BECAUSE it is already assembled and is supposed to be ready to run and use as is from the box!

    Is it? Then why do you buy metal trucks, wheels, and couplers that we said you don't need? Why do you buy details that were molded sort-of half-assed instead?

    We used to include them, but you will pay more for less, and pay again if we are slick enough to con you into it!

    Remember the "New and Improved" or "Special run" or "One of 1,000", etc?

    Hook line and sinker through advertising!

    "We" (being the company hot shots running the country's businesses today), were slick enough to pull it off, and you are paying for it out your nose.

    Just like sheep to the slaughter!

    I am ashamed to have had a part in it even though I fought against those practices all my life, and lost some jobs, because I was raised to give the customer a fair shake.

    You were all educated through advertising, but when you get older, you will be able to look back and realize what happened and how it all came about.

    For money!

    More than you need.

    Greed!

    It was the root of all evil just like the Bible said it is!

    [ 22. April 2003, 10:54: Message edited by: watash ]
     
  14. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    The whole purpose of this thread was not to resort to name-calling, but to wonder what happened to the familiar blue box we used to see in the hobby shops. We HO scalers have been used to seeing that blue Athearn box for years, and perhaps to us it's a shock and surprise when, one day, we discover it's becoming a dinosaur- that Athearn has gravitated more toward the ready-to-run and Genesis line, with price tags to match.

    Do they look nice? Yes.

    Are they well-detailed? Of course.

    Is there much effort involved in getting them road-worthy? No more than taking 'em out of the box & putting 'em on the track.

    As I mentioned before, I have several Atlas and LL P1K r-t-r freight cars, and they are nicely done, as well as good runners. However, when coupled next to one of the dozen or so custom-painted and decaled Athearn hoppers I did for Frisco, they seem to pale, since I remember how much time I took not only in research, but in painting, careful application of decals (what went where), and the installation of Reboxx metal wheels to a couple of them later. Or the TO&E boxcars, none of which exists in anybody's rtr lines, that I custom-painted and decaled for use on the railroad.

    It isn't the size of the bank account of the individual modeler I decry- I could care less how much income you make. It's the gravitation toward instant gratification that gets to me- that and the percieved decision by Athearn to phase out the blue box kits (which took time and effort to asemble, add couplers, paint & decal if needed).

    That, my fellow hobbyists, is called sweat equity. For some of us, getting the rtr stuff is our way of enjoying the hobby- hey- whatever floats your boat. For others, it's actually putting forth time & effort, be it a "shake-the-box" kit as Athearn, MDC, Accurail, LL's P2K, and Intermountain, or scratchbuilding (as Brian Schmidt has reminded us- not that there's anything wrong with that...), or somewhere in between.

    For years now, the "shake-the-box" kits have been an entry level into this hobby, and have continued to be a favorite of quite a few folks. There's nothing wrong with lamenting the possible loss of an affordable level of entry for a new generation of modelers, or for folks who are on a tight budget.

    Let's try to keep this on that track, OK guys?
     
  15. Martyn Read

    Martyn Read TrainBoard Supporter

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    Sadly, from my recollection of when I lived near an Athearn-stocking hobby shop the blue boxes pretty much just sat there. I do think it's a shame, but I don't think it's a wrong move by Athearn.

    Anyhow, time will tell, if it's a wrong move then either the blue box range will suddenly make a comeback or Athearn will go broke. I'm not seeing a sign of either of those at present though.

    I do get slightly annoyed at folk whinging they can't get stuff that is readily available though (I mean the first post that Bob forwarded). The CSX centerflow is *still* available direct from Walthers, or from a Walthers-stocking hobbystore, so if the person wants one, then what is the big issue?

    Now maybe in a few months time when or if those have sold out he will have a legitimate gripe, and even then there is a massive supply of 2nd hand Athearn out there, (or at least there is over here,) and with the price of an Athearn kit so low 2nd hand ones are even cheaper. I'm not seeing it becoming impossible to get into the hobby due to costs, at least yet.

    For my own part, I have loads of blue-box items, but to my mind you need more of a variety of freightcars than any one manufacturer produces, so in my fleet I have loads of cars from Athearn, MDC, Concor and Accurail and some cars from Walthers (kit and RTR), Branchlines (kits), Intermountain (kit and RTR), Ertl (RTR), Genesis (RTR), Atlas (RTR), Proto 1000 (rtr), Proto 2000, (1xRTR, many more Kits) plus doubtless a few more oddities here and there.

    The issue for me is to get a mix of styles, and I already have lots of Athean's mouldings, so for me, I'm not buying much of either the blue box freightcars, or the equivalents in the RTR line....*except* if they produce them (either one) in a scheme that really fills a gap in my modelling.

    I have lots of RTR line stuff now, but only one covered hopper that was previously a blue-box moulding (though not a blue-box paintscheme) A couple of things that stand out there are the ex RPP trailers, now I have made and painted these as kits, and I am *very* happy to pay for a paint job that is far better than I can accomplish. :rolleyes:

    I think it's a shame that this range is being run down, but I can see why they are doing it. It's also a bit of a misnomer to accuse folk who buy them of not building kits, In my experience most of them *can* and in fact *do* build kits, (take a look at my roster and I build things way more involved than anything Athearn offers) but with limited time for the hobby I'm happy not to have to assemble everything I get.

    [ 22. April 2003, 11:40: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]
     
  16. Mike Robertson

    Mike Robertson TrainBoard Member

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    Sorry if my use of common everyday acronyms is perceived as "name-calling"....[the "Y" word and the "D" word]. These acronyms are used in most forms of media and communications, but not necessarily in any spiteful sense.
    If I see a commentary in a newspaper the "DINKS have possibly ruined the housing market for the single-income family in ----- City", is that a libelous statement?

    If I were a bit younger, I might be described as a "boomer", but I'm much closer to "geezer". Are these offensive ? Not to me.

    As for the MBA crack, it's strictly from personal experience in industry. After nearly 30 years in management, with HIGHER than industry-average profitability, I was forced to fire good employees for no reason, except even more profit, by a succession of three greenhorn MBA's, who knew zero about the business. I took early retirement [ I quit] rather than have to work for this type of bottom-line mindset.Watash said a lot of it for me....so I won't belabor the points.
    I'm sure all MBA's aren't like the ones I encountered, right ? Sorry.

    The analogy I will use is pickup trucks....before the Y's and the D's started buying pickup trucks as TOYS, the car builders made affordable, general utility models for farmers and tradespeople who NEEDED them....not now, now the trucks are ever changing, feature loaded, style-essential, outrageously priced. That's ALL the farmers and tradespeople have to choose from now, in a market driven by people who basically ruined it for those of more modest means.

    The last train show I was at, there was a really nice module across from my table, a quarry scene, with highly detailed track, rolling stock, and a contest-quality wooden crushing plant. Mostly board-by-board construction. A nice enough fellow, of obviously substantial means, asked one of the grizzled old-timers manning the booth...."Where can I buy one of those ?"
    Without missing a beat, and with a straight face, the old-timer said ,"Walthers, I think they have it available assembled now."

    Those of us of many years in the hobby, ( over 50 for me ), have a right to express our opinions, we have paid our dues and then some. We have dealt with limitations of product some of you would hardly imagine, and were resourceful enough to handle these problems, and have fun doing it. Some of you seem to think we should not complain, and that the changes we are seeing are inevitable. Well that may be, but the last time I checked, free speech is not yet as obsolete as low-cost car kits may soon be.

    regards / Mike
     
  17. daveheinzel333

    daveheinzel333 TrainBoard Member

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    I've gotta say I'm on the old-timers side here, even if I am 25 and drive like a maniac on the freeway.

    RTR kits don't bother me, but I also don't love them. In the past month I've bought about 4 trains cars. 2 kits, 2 RTRs. The kits I bought because I like to sit down and spend some time with the cars- putting them together, smelling glue, picking dried glue off of my fingertips, putting my glue-coated fingertips into my eyes to remove my contacts, feeling the nice burn of having chemicals in my eye- you know, that sort of thing.

    The RTRs were purchased because they were very detailed (covered hoppers with metal roofwalks, all that fancy stuff). I wanted to have a couple of cars that really take close-up pictures well, because I do a lot of photography on my layout. The blue-box cars, when photographed close-up, look more like toys than they do to the eye.

    Anyway, when I'm running a train around the tracks, the cars I really admire are the ones I put the most time into. Sure, the detail of the expensive RTR cars is nice, but how attached can you get when you just take it out of the box and put it on the tracks? Not much.

    I feel lucky that my LHS carries a whole wall (and a big wall) full of blue boxes- more than I've ever seen in any other hobby store. Also they carry some LL p2k KITS, as well as p2k rtr cars. Those p2k kits are really something else. The detail is great, and you can spend a whole night putting together one car.

    But I don't worry about Yuppies coming in and buying only RTR cars and pre-assembled buildings. At the end of the day, you know that these types of people just aren't as satisfied with their layout as we are. They look at it more like an investment (partially because they spent 3 times more than we did for the same stuff), and I doubt that deep down, they really feel satisfied with a layout comprised mostly of things that required no skill or talent or time on their part to produce.

    They'll probably be in the hobby for a little while, but soon their pre-fab layout will collect dust, and they will move onto other hobbies- none of which will satisfy them if they only cut corners.

    All the while, us kit builders and bashers will be sitting at our workbenches, filing away plastic spur marks, getting neck cramps because we look down for 5 hours at a time, trying not to slice our fingers again with our hobby knives, trying to figure out why the trucks wobble a little more than we'd like, looking for that #70 drill bit we lost under a pile of scrap styrene, getting black fingers from weathering chalks and getting high off of the Testors Dullcote.

    -Dave
     
  18. William Cowie

    William Cowie TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not offended by the name calling, Mike. And I'm not discounting any experiences anybody might have had with corporate types. But to impute those attributes to Athearn as the cause for the demise of the blue box kits just sounded a little like a cheap shot with no basis in fact. Nobody took the trouble to find out that in fact Athearn, specifically, is run by greedy yuppies or whatever.

    And I tried to make a tongue in cheek point that yuppies are not all bad for the hobby [​IMG] Some of us still labor trying to put close to 300 microscopic N scale decals on a single Maxi III kit.

    That said, I join you in your sentiments 100%. I, too, am not a little sad about the demise of kits in general. Maybe we should have someone take initiative like Rick did in layout building, and have a six week (or less) kit building party.

    Let's all buy one entry level kit, assemble and detail it and report back, extra kudos for superdetailing... The key would be to use entry level kits, because those are what seem to attract some people into the hobby. Anybody up for that?
     
  19. Martyn Read

    Martyn Read TrainBoard Supporter

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    William, that sounds like a very positive idea. [​IMG]

    Can I suggest less than six weeks to put together an Athearn freightcar however...it could be a very slow story! :D [​IMG] :D
     
  20. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    The Hobby shops near me still stock a lot of bluebox both car kits and engines. They seem to move OKAY.


    I'll tell you right now, I will NEVER understand twhy someone would rather pay between $20-$30 for a R.T.R car then the $3-$10 a typical Bluebox costs.

    I currently model in both N and H.O. and I can tell you right now that if the Blueboxs went away, I'd have no reason to stick with H.O.


    I can understand a lack of profitablity for Athearn, but they would be alos removing a whole lot of people from the hobby. Can't they see how bad it would be for them?
     

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