General Questions

I'm a newbie and an oldbie. I had my first layout back in 1966 when I was 9; kept modeling until I was 19 in 1976. Mostly HO, a variety of metal, wood, and plastic modeling. I used a combination of Atlas track and even hand laid some code 55 rail for a diorama, but no turnouts!

In the interim, I've been working and busy with family life, etc. Now my oldest daughter is going off to college (means an "open" room) and the business I started is doing well.

So I'm thinking about getting back into the hobby again. Things have changed a lot. Sorry for being so long winded; my question is where do folks restart in MR these days? I see real advances in detailed models; I see an incredible amount of available prototype information; costs don't seem to have risen as much inside the hobby as elsewhere; there's a big emphasis on operation...

In short, I would really appreciate any thoughts and comments from fold who have re-entered the hobby after a hiatus and how they got adjusted.

Thanks in advance, cjh

 

Thanks for the welcome. I hope I posted to the right place and in the right way. I'm kind of new to this type of communication!

Your first thought was "what scale do you intend to model and what prototype?". As far as the prototype, I've always been attracted to the CNW city/industrial operations in Chicago, Milwaukee, and northern Wisconsin. That's seemed to have held my interest for over 30 years now, so I think I'll go with that!

As far as the scale, that's one of the things that is really puzzling me now. I'm pretty familiar with HO. When I was younger I used to think about fine scale HO (recently seen some Proto:87, which looks great!) But as I've been getting older I'm afraid my manual and visual dexterity may not be quite up to par.

I have no existing models; they're with all of my baseball cards somewhere... It's always hard to figure out what to keep and what to throw away. But anyway I'm free to start wherever.

I am interested in your comments about N. From the layouts I've seen the potential for long trains, greater scope, etc have always been interesting. The question I would pose is do you think an older person, particularly one with "ham hands" can model effectively in N?

Thanks again for the welcome, and I look forward to participating in TrainBoard as I get rolling.

cjh

 

Like Paul said before me,Welcome to trainboard .When I got back into modelrailroading I just jumped in with both feet!! DUMB!! on my part,but it worked 23 years later I'm still here.

I would suggest that you concider the amount of room you have and what type of railroad ing you want to do.Do you want a bigtime class 1 railroad,or maybe a shortline?

Do you want big trains or short locals for switching?What scales appeal to you. Go to your local hobbyshop and compare the scales see which one you like best.

Make your re-entry layout a simple one till you get the hang of it.Then you can go larger and/or more complicated.

Don't be afraid to ask what you think may be a dumb question 'cause the only dumb ones are the the ones that you didn't ask. In other words there ain't no such a critter.

Ok this is where I get off the soapbox for the next person.

<marquee>North American Rail Alliance</marquee>

 

CJH,What's older? I'm 56 and the worlds biggest clutz and I model in N scale

 

Here's my vote for HO scale - I too have been impressed with Proto:87 but that needs to be 'proven' for me as my ultimate goal is for a smooth operating railway.

I am also a recent (in the past 3 years) re-entry into the hobby. My living situation is rather unpredictable for the next several years (yankinoz as in Yankee living in Australia) so a permanent layout is not in my foreseeable future. Some sort of module / domino sort of thing will hopefully be in the near future for me. While I am waiting I have been thoroughly enjoying detailing fright car kits and locomotives. The more I get into the super detailing the more I realize that HO is the right scale for me. One day, Proto:87 conversions could happen, but for now I am happy with HO.

Finding local clubs is a good idea - it will give you the opportunity to see different scales in action. Local train shows are good too.

 

Your story is familiar. I too left HO in my teens and at 50 (three years ago) returned, this time to N scale. I visited the San Diego Model RR Museum to see if N scale did it for me. It did for the same reasons stated in the prior posts. I built two nTrak modules, got the feel for laying track, wiring, ballasting and creating scenery and a little model building. I later scrapped the table tops, and incorporated them into the current layout I've been building for the past two years. I've learned that the more you model the better you will become. While you are honing your skills on a module or two read as much as possible on OPERATIONS before designing a track plan - or adopt one designed by someone who knows about operations. John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation: Prototype Railroad Concepts for Your Model Railroad" and Allen McClelland's "The V & O Story" along with tons of other reading satisfied my need for a track plan that did more than run in circles. Remember it's fun and that the fine people here at TrainBoard and other scale-specific groups are always eager to share their experiences. Good Luck!

Mike

 

Welcome back to model railroading. You are fortunate that you live in an area that has some very active model railroaders. I know of some individuals that as soon as you tell them you have and interest, they will be glad to show you what they have done. I'll be happy to put you in contact with some of the model railroaders that I know of around your area.

There is an N-scale group in The Dalles that is planning an operational session on June 10th. Someone from the Tri-Cities may be attending. I may have some email addresses if you want to make contact.

Let me know if you ever get to the John Day/Canyon City area and you can see the projects that are keeping me busy.


HO:
http://canyonmtngineers.homestead.com/OregonWesternLines.html

N:
http://canyonmtngineers.homestead.com/CanMtNgineers.html


You may email me from the websites if you would like more information.

Regards,

 

N scale is definitely the better way to go if your free room is a bedroom, more railroading. There are lots of "older" people in N scale, in fact, recently I have heard arguements in favour of N for older folks.

A couple of thoughts:

1) N engines look terrible on bare plywood, if you go that scale and bring your goodies home, expect to be disappointed. N scale more than the larger scales needs a finished layout to bring it alive.

2) I'm not sure what you mean by ham fisted, but only you will be able to determine what you can handle. But before you can make that determination, as said above, maybe join an N club or N track to get a feel for it.

3) Expect to be frustrated the first 100 times you try to re-rail the cars and engines. You do acquire a skill for it.

4) In a bedroom, you can get a double decker with no duck under as you enter the romm. The tighter curves in N favour a double decker in a smaller space.

5) I am modeling in a 7 by 13 space and have 120 feet of mainline railroading, you can't do that in HO in that size room.

6) I am not anti-HO, if I had the space I would probably model in that scale, but I want a as much railroad as I can get, so N scale it is for me. I run HO at my friends houses.

7) N scale engines have come a long way since your first entered the hobby. Only look at Atlas, Kato, and RECENT Life Like (starting with their SW9/12's and forward).

8) This statement will raise an eyebrow or two, but here goes... I don't think N scale is a good scale for steam, even if there was a good selection. In N scale, steam just doesn't have the presence it does in HO and larger. But N is great for the contemporary scene. An SD90 in HO is going to look like G scale. As contemporary equipment gets larger, HO is going to be in trouble - for contemporary modelers; minium radius's will have to be larger, train lengths will diminish, siding lenghts will have to increase. An 85 freight car is the same lenght in N scale as an HO 40 box car.

9) City dwellings can be larger in N scale (but the industry is not taking advantage of this side of N scale and are copying what they do in HO). A ten story building in HO is quite big, in N scale you could have an 18 story building and it would still be lower - although close to the same height.

10) You will be able to get more "Layout design elements" (scenes) into the same given area, thus increasing the feeling of distance in your room.

11) Although we are less than half of H0 modelers, you will find on the "net" we are much more active. Look at the number of posts in N scale in this forum...and the number of posts by HO'rs.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsn48:
7) N scale engines have come a long way since your first entered the hobby. Only look at Atlas, Kato, and RECENT Life Like
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I aggree - my absence from the hobby started in 1985 and my first real first hand experince opertaing N scale equipment since then was only a few weeks ago (Thanks Colonel and Gats) and I must say it has come a very long way.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsn48:
Look at the number of posts in N scale in this forum...and the number of posts by HO'rs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trainboard does have an N scale bias but there are other groups on the net that lean toward HO (ldsig for example.) I am a frequent posted in the N scale forum here as much of what goes on is not scale spicific. For me HO scale is a better fit - and for me I am in HO for the fine detail that that I can obtain. That said - there are some modelers who are pushing the limits of fine scale in N - many of these guys are regulars here and I am constanly amaysed at what they are doing.

No scale is better or worse than the other (Z through G and above) they just have different merits.

 

What can I say. All these modelers are “starters over”. My second youngest daughter presented me with a N Scale “Little Joe” setup about four years ago when I was 67. Now I have six of the little devils running at the same time. Start small and you will be up and running in no time. When you get frustrated because something won’t go right – walk away. It will present itself in a different light when you open the door again.
I don’t know if it is proper for me to welcome you since I am very new to Trainboard myself. - - But welcome anyway.

 

I guess I better jump in here with both feet before you get covered up in "What Scale Fever".

CNWfan, I'm 70, will become 71 Sept. 30th. I think you are remembering the days when if we wanted to have trains as a hobby, we had two choices, either go with "Ready-to-Run" Lionel toys, or "Scale Do-it Yourself" kits.

You don't have to worry about being able to drill .010" diameter holes for grab irons, or tap 00-90 screw threads, or even see 000-176 shoulder screws! Those days are gone!

Everything is shake the box and run it today! It will give you some financial shock because the engine kit we used to save up so we could afford to pay #39.97 for, now comes fully assembled. That means, you sell your second car for the privalege of paying $275.00 for that same engine today.

Then, you can run it as you receive it(heaven forbid), or you can listen to all the other members in a club explain to you that you absolutely MUST change the couplers, change the wheels, change the motor and add flywheels, change the gears so it will run slower, and last but not at all the least, it is becoming mandatory to change from DC control to the new DCC control! Most of them can't afford DCC, but they want you to get it.

But then you will have to have the DCC booster, the power supply, and walk-a-round hand held controllers. It will be advisable to repaint your new engine and send it to someone and have many tiny details added, so you can satisfy everyone who looks closely at this new engine.

Now that you have obtained the apporval of everyone, you will set your new engine on the club layout, and notice that the other members have brought the cheapo nothing engines they bought at a garage sale for a few bucks, to run with you.

Ain't that a shame?

CNWfan, the ONLY thing that matters, is, what do YOU really want! Are you going to be satisfied to run what is in the box, or are you going to be a stickler for every detail that is available? Be your own man, it is your Railroad, you run it, you own it, you pay for it.

My dad told me: "Advice is worth what it costs!"

If you have experience with HO, that has all changed now. Now it depends on how much space you have, and how much money can you spend, and how thick is your hide!

Most engines are diesel today and there are a whole slew of them if you count paint schemes. What do you want to see, lots of side rod monkey motion steam engines, or long trains snaking around mountains, through tunnels, over bridges?

There are trains from 1/500 scale all the way up to 1:1 scale as a hobby nowdays. You have to decide where you fit in there. Once you have made up your mind, then you will have lots of advice from all angles trying to "help" you go the right way.

I'm too old and stubborn to change horses, so I have stayed with my scale the better part of my life, and I'm still happy with it!

 

In my lifetime I have gone through O scale clockwork trains then Hornby Dublo then to HO and finally to N gauge. I just turned 64 and if you do it right, N gauge is a pleasure. Good track laying and lots of those rerailer sections. I make them look like road crossings. No problems putting cars or locos on when you have one of these rerailers nearby. To my way of thinking N allows us to get away without putting too much detail into our projects. It is the overall results that count. The eye takes in the whole scene and it is easy to create an atmosphere that is pleasing.
The only negative comment I have against N gauge is the lack of steam locomotives. If you are a steam buff then HO is the way to go

 

CJH, Welcome to TrainBoard! I have to admit that Watash, Robin, Catt, and other contributers already said what is necessary to say when it comes to advices.
I started to model in H0 scale in the 50´s, but now I´m running N scale since 1988.
--------
Helge

SR&WF
NARA member #5

 

CJH A big hearty welcome to trainboard. I built my first layout around 1965. It was HO and I cut ties from balsa and layed my own rails with spikes. At the time I had a 2 car garage so used half of it for the layout. Now I will be 69 this next holloween, (yes, Oct 31st) I started another layout in N gauge on a 4' x 4' sheet of plywood 2 years ago. In December of 2000 We moved to a larger mobile home and I expanded it to 39 square feet. I can get much more railroad and scienery in N gauge. Take watash's advise. He is the expert on trainboard. The only mistake he made was 70 uears ago (lol) and that wasn't really his fault. Robin and Helge also have excellent advise when you need it as well as a number of other members. GO FOR IT

 

Yep Welcome(back)

YOu're question is great in that like me you have found an amzing resource for questions in anything "model Railroad".

I am in the(very slow) process of converting a spare bedroom into A model railroad room.I personally am using N-scale as well.As mentioned above for the amount of space I have I can get twice the railroad in N=scale that I could fit in the same space in HO scale.

There are alot of decisisions as already posted you need to ask yourself to get what you want.But that is the REAL KEY to a successful model railroad...WHAT YOU LIKE.

For suggested reading in starting from the beginning I started a thread called "Train Room Basics" in this forum. There are some great Ideas and advice I recieved from many of the members here. But that would be a great place to start reading for base ideas of what you want the room to be before you start losing sleep over the layout plan.

And yes,if the bug has indeed bitten you , you will lose some sleep. Wondering if this will fit there, double deck or not...( thats another good post to read for info and opinions on double decking or not called "Double deck or Double trouble"). DCC or not. Smaller Ho or grander plans in N scale.

Geesh i rattle on so much lets summarize.
Basically I agree with what was posted above,

First, Browse the web,magazines or local layouts to see what you want in a railroad.
Mainline action with a little switching here and there? Switching layout with little or no mainline? or somewhere in between etc...There are many pros and cons for all.

Second, Figure your space. A full room? a tempory table top thats only set up occasionally? Basement size? or maybe just a module to join the local club with?

Those two questions require quite a bit of study in thereself before you get to things like fixing up the space or planning a layout.The based on your requirements in layout and space the scale question usually answers itself.

Of course there is a lot of room for give and take.Like in my case to fit in more mainline I am using tight radius curves. That works for me but makes others cringe.I am also planning on a continous double main line as I like to sit back and just watch them run often times.I am following the newer trend of Staging yards.Ask if you want more info on those.

But that brings me back to my main point.The only thing that will make you happy is what makes you happy.Your building it for your enjoyment primarily.So what you like should be the main factor in all stages of design.

From the train board I have recieved tons of very good advice. Alot of it I will use,some I do not have the space or finances for. But it all boils down to taking that advice you get here and building WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.

well thats my two cents worth,okay maybe a nickels worth as long as this got

Later Folks