Gentlemen, I have never seen such a rapid and varied response to any post, at least lately, other than what has happened here. I am a fan of the hobby but when prices soar at the rate of natural gas I have questions. Albeit, WGH or other pressures put on this hobby, I think prices have risen dramatically. Will I continue to enjoy and spred the virtues of this hobby? Ya darn toot'n. Just my way of getting back at the poor Rich and the want to get richer quicker. He he. As for N scale, can't help much there, but I would like to see more of it. I usually have one when I travel. Lots of fun.
I think it’s hard to really pinpoint the cause behind this one because we’re not comparing apples to apples. One can address it purely from an inflationary standpoint, but that would assume that the items are still manufactured in the same place with the same materials. Most production has moved offshore where at least labor is actually far cheaper than it was here back in the 60-70’s. Not sure about materials. One can then argue that improvements in quality and technology support the increase in costs. Well, maybe so. But I still see reissues with no new tooling other than maybe a different coupler that command a far higher price. I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s all moot to me if cost in general keeps people away from the hobby. Many seem to lose sight of the fact that our hobby is in competition with other pursuits that are actually cheaper and give instant gratification. You may not like it, but enough people do and won’t think anything of spending $125 on new video games rather than a new DCC locomotive. Oh, yeah, and you’ll likely need a second loco, a number of freight cars, and spend a lot of time and money building that layout to run it all on too. See what’s happening here? It’s tough enough to sell a hobby that takes a lot of time and effort to get up and running, so now we want people to spend lots of money on it too? OK, off my soapbox now…
Hytec, I agree, the prices of n-scale stuff now compared to when I started in it in the 60's is quite a bargain in its own right. When you add in the extreme increase that we have seen in quality of both operation and detail in the last few years, it is an even better deal. </font>[/QUOTE]Nelson: I'm in complete agreement with you. When I started in the late 50's, ther's no comparison to what was available then and what we have today. Today's model trains are far more detailed and perform infinitely much better than what we had in the late 50's-60's. The price today is well worth the money you pay in comparison to that earlier time period. Most HO cars at that time were better built if you made them from balsa wood kits. Let's remember that plastic didn't come into common use until the late 1960's . The plastics in the late 1960's can't be compared to the plastics we use today in Model Railroading. Stay cool and run steam.....
Benny, You are soooo right!!! It is not about the past 30-40 years, it is about the past 12-18 months. Inflation is a very sneaky animal. It will creep into anything that has a price. If it be a 'slow' commodity, it will bypass. If it be a 'hot' commodity, it will intensify. Go figure. I agree with the improvements within the Hobby and welcome them. I have reservations about the prices soaring as they have in the past few years though. Seems that the increase in costs have not gone up as rapidly as the retail prices have. Hmmmm, the game is afoot. Who can solve this conundrum for us?
I believe that Benny has it right. It doesn't matter how you adjust for inflation, or compare to prices now, versus then. We may have greater purchasing power, in theory, but do we actually have those real dollars, to make the buy? It's what we have left over, for disposable income. There are too many things chipping away at shrinking spare dollars. Which is why it feels tighter than what once was. Boxcab E50
So I'm wondering if, as a child, was I faster in new tennis shoes? Today I went to the LHS that I've dealt with for a long time. I bought some ground throws there in 89 or so for about $5.00 each. Today they were a shade over $6.00. The track, switches, and such have been similarly slightly more. Then I saw a beautiful piece of "plastic candy", a WP 50' boxcar, orange with the silver feather, really good paint, magnetic couplers, modern high quality trucks, and I mentally compared it to the similar car I have that's 15 years old, the paint is no comparison, and I added couplers and upgrade trucks. Maybe $15.00 then, $34.00 today. I would suggest that it's not an across the board thing, it seems more random than just inflation or such can account for. Or?
Keep in mind that "Back Then" when we bought a new engine, we put it together,and it would run AND pull like a Missouri Mule too! We added details and paint if we wanted to. Today, you buy an engine and all the details and paint are there, but it will only run pulling its self. It is supposed to be Ready To Run, well then, Why do we have to change wheels or trucks, couplers, add weight, and sometimes motors BEFORE it is Ready To Run? We still add details and paint if we want to. Seems like inflation to me!
Watash, Inflation is the almost right term. I would call it inflation if I had my compressor near by. Folks sorry for not checking in sooner, I have a job that has me out in the boondocks, alot. I would call it a chance to tell everyone that prices will go up and may go up. I still believe that the WGH program, that was started by the boys over at MR, is the reason prices have risen dramatically. At least lately. If I'm wrong, please prove it to me. No disdainment meant for the boys at MR.
Although I'll agree with Benny on the ridiculous costs of heating gas and/or gase over the past 12-18 months, I don't think it has anything to do with inflation. We've got an ongoing war in the Middle East, and three hurricanes that almost wiped out the Gulf of Mexico refineries. Shortage (which I don't entirely believe) = higher costs. Back to modelling, and I've said this before, as a long time HO'er (gasp!) I worked in hobby shop from '95-'98, right around the time P2K came to be and Kato released their dynamic Dash 9. Before that, all we really had was Athearn and Roundhouse/MDC "ready to run" cars that were marginally detailed by today's standards. They were great cars (and still are) but, suddenly detail and proto nuts got into the hobby. Everyone began demanding higher detailed models. Models with the detail levels of P2K E8's and the Kato Dash 9 were expected, with the detail levels comes higher development costs, tooling costs and, higher price points. I remember starring in disbelief at the MSRP on pre-order forms for the Kato Dash 9 ($130). I had never paid more the $50 for your average Athearn. Once we received the first ATSF Warbonnet, I understood why the MSRP was so expensive. The details were unlike anything I had ever seen or imagined on a plastic model. I think, we as modelers, have demanded more high quality, finely detailed models, than ever before. Manufacturers have answered our calls and, thus produced items that could not be priced at the old price points. Seriously, would any of you have thought we'd see a N scale shay? With operating valve gear?
Now that we have established that there is money in N scale for manufacturers (people are paying these high prices after all), I think it's time we see some SURFLINERS, by Athearn since Kato wouldn't do them. I'd even buy a set from ConCor, well maybe.
Sounds like there are more HO scalers here than Lionel, but I am sure they would agree that as the cost of engines rise, so does the quality of the motors, sounds, and realism. I can't speak for HO, since I model O, but I am blown away with the details for the TMCC engines from MTH, Lionel, Atlas, K-Line, to name a few. When Lionel came out with a price tag of $1,999.00 for the Acela set, I was amazed, but they were able to get it. Now an Odyssey engine from Lionel with version 5.0 of their sounds and TMCC costs more than my mortgage per month. That is what shocks me! I can normally do just fine with a $300-$400 engine with TMCC and the older rail sounds.
