I am about to start building a new N-scale room size layout. All of my other previous efforts have been lacking in different areas, so I have decided to start from scratch and am looking to build "the layout" in my life. My questions are for the room at this point though. Model Railroader magazines in general have a few articles on room preparation. There is some great books on Benchwork and wiring of the railroad and scenery etc...BUT very little on preparing a space for a major railroading project. SO here are some of the questions I have thought of so far.If there are things other than these I should consider please clue me in, because I know its always easier to do something before the benchwork gets in the way. More precisely... Electricity. Will it be better to spend the money up front and run an entire new circuit from the breaker box or do you think it will be okay to run some surge protector type strips from the outlets already in the room? I will mount them If I use the strips so that they will be "installed" as such, but will the drain be too much or any type of safety hazard? Besides basic electrical outlets is there any need for "more power" to the room? The things I am thinking of are the power packs, a sound system of some sort down the line, a computer if I can find some software for car routing prontouts ,printing decals etc. Anything else I might need thats not listed? Benchwork and Flooring. Any suggestions for colors? I am wanting the room to have a nice appearance so I want them to be color cooridinated. But again the magazine layout articles rarely show the fascia side of any of the layouts. Like I said I am starting basically from scratch in this room including new tile instead of the old carpet. Should I try to cooridinate it to the Railroad colors or will that be too much? I have seen a few with wood paneling fronts but I am not sure how well storage drawers or card routing boxes will blend in with the wood.Darker or lighter colors? Earth tones or something brighter to lighten up the room some? So many decision lol Which brings me to.... Lighting. The best article I have seen so far used mostly incandescent lighting (white 100 watt bulbs with 25 watt blue bulbs every other one) fade the white down and use the blue to simulate night time but still be able to see. Seems like an okay idea but I think wiring wise and maintenance wise flourescent in a valance around the room would be much easier.The layout will be mostly around the walls with one peninsula towards the middle off of one end...sort of a large block G shape. If I decide to go with the incandescent lights will blue and white be enough or should I squeeze in a few reds as well to try to simulate sunlight type colors (sunrise/sunset). Do you think if I decide to run a fastclock will it be possible to set the lights to a timer of some sort to simulate the different brightnesses during the day? Or if I put them on dimmers how many dimmers can I put on the circuit that is already running from the light switch to the overhead light in the middle of the room? Then this brings me to... The ceiling. Will 6 foot flourescents around the room be enough for the whole room if they are in a valance? SHould I look into installing a drop ceiling instead and light the whole room instead of focusing on the layout? If I do install a drop ceiling any suggestions for using the valnce with the drop? If I light the entire room and decide to use spotlights in the drop part,Do I need to worry about heat from them affecting scenery or plastic structures? Or is even a valance or a drop ceiling a good idea? Are the alternatives I havent seen or thought of yet? And another good question is what color blue for the walls/backdrop? will a lighter pastel sky blue be okay or will it be to light if I use flourescent lights around the edge of the room? Is it better to go with a darker color to highlight the railroad better? SHould I attempt clouds to give a little texture or stick with a solid blue color? This seems like alot of questions I know but I am looking to do this one right, and don't won't to repeat my or others mistakes if I can avoid them.Besides As I get the room close to completion THE I get to the real questions lol. Thanx in advance for any input Greg Hanes
Permit me a few basic observations. First, re: electricity. Most household circuits are at least 15 Amps, which is 1800 watts. All the powerpacks and sound systems for a railroad in one room wouldn't come near that, so no new circuit is required. As to lighting, models painted under incandescent lighting will not look "right" under standard flourescent lighting. You can, however, get both incandescent and flourescent bulbs that imitate sunlight. They cost more, but how often do flourescents burn out? If you attempt a sky backdrop, a uniform color will not look right, the color should fade almost to white at the horizon and be deepest at the top. Unless you're modeling a modern urban area, where the horizon should be brown with smog! Good luck. I have a room designed especially for a model railroad (all four walls unobstructed, staircase up into the middle of the room and skylights) but have yet to start on the railroad! [ 24 March 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ]
I've built a few layouts, and heres what I would do. The electricity, You can never have too many outlets, go ahead and run a seperate circut arround the room with an outlet every 6 ft. Also a good idea to have a switch by the room entrance to cut all the power. For the lighting, go with the florescents, they are much cooler running than the incandesents. Mine are regular 10 dollar shoplights with GE ultra daylight bulbs. ( nice color). Run them arround the walls and above the peninsula with about 1 foot between the fixtures. Switch them at the door also. Personally I use a valance on a bare basement ceilng thats painted white. Drop celings are nice , but not nessassary IMO. For the floor, just get some floor paint and have at it. Ever try to find that dropped n scale detail part in carpet? When you come to the front of the benchwork, go with dark colors. Bright colors just draw attention from the layout. Another thing about lighting that sort of goes with the benchwork. Keep the lights above the layout only , without any lighting in the isles. This will make the layout more of a stage. For the backdrop I would go with light blue and coluds. With possibly a low dim horizon of hills and trees. HTH........Mike
Mopartex you have just opened the biggest can of worms I have seen yet! With over 1,560 members you are going to be up to your chin in advice! Let me be the first to welcome you to the TrainBoard family! The answer to your question is Yes, basically. Because you are able to prepare a room from scratch, you are lucky. >Do have a solid floor so it will not shake if a 250 pounder walks across it wont shake your cars off the track. >Do use surge protectors on all 120v used in the room. >Do have 20amp breakers in the power box with 15amp secondary. >Do provide a place for your computer that is away from you work bench. >Do use a separate circuit for computer, another for soldering, another for power packs, lighting, etc. >Do install means for incadescent light bulbs if you are going to take photos. >Do research flourescent light, some fades scenery colors over time. (Questions?) >Do install dual or quad 120v grounded outlets around the room no more than 6 feet apart. You will have to meet city code, but you are allowed to exceed it. >Do insulate the walls. >Do plan on using sheet rock at least from table height up. >Do put a radiused corner and all around the ceiling of 6" to 12" radius if you are going to paint a back drop. (Go outside and look up. There is only one sun. There are many clouds. Question?) >Do leave the lower sheet rock off to start. You may need to fasten to a wall stud for support during bench construction, "C" clamps are wonderful during benchwork! There is time to put it in after wiring is complete. >Do consider floor color and type. IF: You are going to be doing work with tiny parts, you want linoleum and a flashlight to find them when one falls to the floor.IF: You could have an engine fall on the floor, you will want carpet, padded. Also if you are going to entertain guests. >Do consider connecting dimmers and a row of spot lights to replicate the sun passing overhead. Early AM the dimmer starts sunrise with the lower spot light beginning to glow in the east. At 10:00AM the next spotlight has begun to glow at half intensity, while the eastern one has deminished to half intensity and room lights may or may not be bright. If it is a cloudy day, the little lights behind the ceiling clouds may be on and showing silver linings! (Questions?) >Do have door to room, no windows. >Do prepare airconditioning heat and cooling through changeable filter registers for the room. Minimun 250 cfm air change per 10x15 foot room. Filters assist with dust control. (Keeps dust from sheet rock off wife's dining room table while it also keeps outdoor dust off your tracks)> Circulate air into and outoff the room and back to central heat/air unit. >Do have phone jack close to work bench in room. >Do provide space for small TV for viewing VCR reference tapes. >Do use space under layout for storage. Waggons, drawers. >Do put dark cover curtins over layout edge in walk isles. >Do install small lights under layout. Keep a drop light under too with switch. >Do stand back, grab hold of something solid, because here comes the deluge of advice from the others willing to help. >DO ENJOY MAN!!!! [ 24 March 2001: Message edited by: watash ]
Mopartex,welcome to the family. . My advice to you is "Listen to what Watash says,he makes good sense. <marquee>North American Rail Alliance</marquee>
MoParTex - A word of caution. All of the advice you are, and will be getting is excellent because it comes from all of us "been there, done that's" - HOWEVER, if you try to implement all the advice, you will probably (check one): 1. Never get started because you are overwhelmed with the number of tasks that you MUST accomplish first, and the overall size of the project; 2. Never get passed 10% finished because you ran out of money; 3. Never get passed 20% because you haven't been able to run the first train yet, and you've gotten bored; 4. Never get passed ......., etc. I think you get the idea. Unless you are building a club-size layout, with lots of help, keep it simple so you can enjoy it as you build. You can always add/correct things later - for instance, I painted my walls after track was down and operating - covered the layout with plastic sheets and used an airless spray gun. It is, after all, a hobby(!) - the goal is your pleasure and relaxation - emphasis on "your"! I'm on my sixth layout in 55 years, because each time I learned things I wanted to improve with the first five ... been there, done that! Have fun , Hank
I looked at your post as was overwhelmed as I knew if I was going to respond to it correctly, I would have to print it out, read the questions one by one, then respond. It looked like an hour task easy. But instead, others will give you much of what you are asking; so I will give you this suggestion instead. Instead of posting many, many questions, start at the "beginning" - however you define that - and post questions about that. I would finish the room with too much electrical capacity, rather than just enough, in case of future developments in the "whatever." I would submit your bench plan and layout design for suggestions now, rather than latter. For example, do you have enough space for a mushroom plan, or a double decker? For a lounge area? Your bench plan will be determined by the "givens" of the room, but you might change it after it has been critiqued. Now is the time to possibly move the water heater (cheaper now than latter on). Take into consideration access of the electrical panel if it is down stairs. My buddy's friend's son gave him and his wife a dishwasher for Christmas - it still isn't in. Why? Because his staging yards go right beneath the electrical panel and he knows to put another electrical circuit in for the dishwasher will mean the building inspector will want the area around the electrical panel cleared. He is between a rock and a hard place, because his son and wife are wondering what is taking him so long to get the dishwasher in. A more finished room looks more professional, a softer floor is easier on older legs and feet. Certain things you don't need to decide on for a couple of years - like facia colour - this is a fad thing and might evolve to be something different by the time you are ready. Today's fad is lighter olive green, sand coloured or a lighter brown on a smooth fascia with all rounded and curved benchwork with no straight lines. Things change, you will be at it for a couple of years at least, so make only the decisions that have to be made now. Where is the phone outlet going to go...maybe you should put cable access in now. Why? Well a number of my friends are using dispatchers that live in other cities on the planet...the dispatching is done through the net. Where are the phone and cable jack going to go? You can't say for certain until the benchwork design has been done. The benchwork design doesn't have to have a "finished" track plan. Just have an idea of where the mainline is going and what type (point to point, loop to loop, folded dogbone, loop to point), where your yard is going to go (if you are having one) and where your staging is going to go (under the layout is one good area). If it becomes a double decker where and what kind of helix, or if mushroom you get another new can of worms. How do you know where to put the lights and how many without a benchwork plan. So draw up a benchwork plan and submit it for critique, then after you are settled what the benchwork is going to look like, then you can decided critical areas for electrical wall sockets, phone plugs, cable jack, ect. Have Fun! It does eventually come together.
Welcome to the Trainboard. A lot of us here have homepages with pictures of our layouts and rooms. On my site www.members.iquest.net/~leghome/index.html I have pictures of my new 11' X 15' train room under construction all the way to the point I am now. I am laying track and I have gone thru some of the same questions you are now. I put in flouresent lighting recessed in the suspended ceiling with track lighting so I can dim the lights to simulate night time. I found some cloud wallpaper that I put on the walls over the layout area. I had several guys over today for a Hoosier Connection twenty-oh-one Convention meeting and they were all impressed with my clouds. Several asked for the name of the company that made the wallpaper for their layout rooms. Like others have said there are many ways of doing things and reading these posts will help you in making the decession that best fits your needs. Just go slow and do it right the first time redo's are no fun as I would testify is required to. Have fun is what hobbies are supposed to be, so enjoy and be happy. [ 25 March 2001: Message edited by: leghome ]
What a great topic! I'm in the middle of layout construction and this is all wonderful information. I've got the benchwork built and I'm about to install some better lighting in the room. I'll also be looking into some better wall coverings as the layout is in the unfinished side of the basement and wall studs aren't that interesting to look at... it's actually a pretty dark room, so I'll probably install some flourescent lights and drywall the wall above the benchwork. D6
I guess my advise to you,is if it feels right to you,it is.(2)Listen to Watash,he's been around trains and model trains longer than most of us have been alive.No insult intended Watash!!!.He's given me info that really helped.So if it feels right in your heart,IT IS . heard this the other day: Old railroaders never die...They just get put on static display. RRman48 RUSTYB FRISCO4EVER
I was told us old railroaders never die, we just smell that way! I'm spiking rail on my layout, so they are probably right! Have you ever tried to spike a pit rail in a perfect circle? That's where I am right now.
Watash, I know what your talkin about!!! "Spike a pit rail" HEE HEE! I'll tell ya how I got my pit rail true to round! I'm building a 20 inch turntable, so in turn i'm using the normal nickle silver rail like the rest of my layout. So what I did is find the circumference I needed for the rail (Diameter) And then found something that was round and some type of metal (a small bucket) clamped the rail to it and heated it to bend it to the curvature of the bucket once that was completed I then soldiered the ends of the piece of rail to hold its shape. Now i'm where your at spiking it in!!!! Lots of fun! I heated the rail itself to bend it to what I needed and then temporarily fastened it to the bucket to do the heat work to bend it as I bent it I then clamped it in different places to hold it while I kept going around the bucket till i came to the other end. Once I got the ends to match and the whole piece of rail round and true I then cut the rail so I could soldier the ends together to hold the round shape. I had to clamp the rail every inch to inch and a half apart. If you try this make sure you wear welding gloves!!!!! Believe me I know, I found this out the hard way!!!! I tried this for awhile bare handed and boy that little tip of rail you put your finger onto to start the bend sure does get hot fast!! Oh yeah Watash, I forgot to say I didn't buy one of those kits from that fellow you told be to contact! I am making my own!!!!! I scratchbuilt the whole pit and went an bought a atlas turntable and took all the hardware out of it and is going to install it in the pit I built!!!! And it will be electric poered by the atlas motorizing kit!!!!! Simple easy and cheap. And all in all good looking you'd swear it was a expensive kit. And it not!!!! Thats me for ya I like to spend the money in the loco's and cars! The layout itself i'll build little at a time and get good results from it and HEY I built it for alot less!!!! All I have to do to the motorizing kit to the atlas powering kit is add a stronger motor to the original gearing. So I have enough power to turn thew big loco's!!!! The motor thats in the motorizing kit is small and only made for the 9 inch table so.... I'm going to customize that to do what I want it too.
John, my pit is 18-1/2" diameter. I have a rail rolling mill I made a long time ago, so I rolled a piece of nickle silver rail to the required diameter. Then I slipped a joiner (for the .080" high rail), and will not solder it because of some expansion gap of .020". My original intent was to glue it, but decided better to drill spike holes (.028" dia.) both inside and outside all around, so the rail can slip. I will post a photo of the micro-drill press setup when this roll of film is developed. I have been through this before, so this time, I'm not taking any chances. You can send your photos any time you want. I'll e-mail you each so you will have then to use for whatever you need too. Then you can tell me when you want me to post them and I'll do it for you.
