Howdy railyard, I posted this on the Atlas board, and am repeating it here for my Trainboard friends. I hope you enjoy it. This format is good for smaller and/or less permanent layouts, and for the lone-wolfers out there, or something to try out over the holidays. It works pretty well for my small N-scale hollow-core door layout. Since I don’t have a yard of any kind, I have to fiddle my trains together on the long straight section of track. Like most people, I have my favorite equipment, and noticed I was watching the same old trains run around and around, over and over again. I wanted some randomness and variety, and since I didn’t want a complicated card system, I scratched together a die-based switching game. In the end, I realized the following advantages: I was able to eventually run all of my rolling stock in a few days time. I was able to learn first hand about some previously unknown equipment shortcomings (such as a particular boxcar won’t couple with a particular tank car). I found some track work on my layout that was causing some problems (A certain gondola always derails at the west end). And I found out what cars I’m really short of (reefers!) or have too many of (covered hoppers). All of this came to light as a result of using this little switching game. I’ll outline my version. You will need to customize all the variables to fit your layout. Steal a single die from your Monopoly game. You will need a single sheet of paper to write down your rules and regulations. Here is the script used to plan a train and a round: First toss indicates how many switching “events”: 1=2, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. Next toss(es) indicates which industries to switch. I alternate between Eastbound and Westbound trains. It all depends on your layout and turnout arrangements. Westbound 1= Bonita River Distribution, 2= Sandia Oil, 3= interchange, 4= siding, 5= Bonita River Distribution, 6= Sandia Oil. Eastbound 1= Smokey Mountain Cattle pens, 2= siding, 3= Smokey Mountain lead track, 4= siding, 5= Smokey Mountain Cattle pens, 6= Smokey Mountain loading dock. The next toss(es) indicates if your switching move will be inbound or outbound. Toss for each of the industries chosen previously. 1= in, 2= out, 3= in, 4= out, 5= in, 6= out. The next toss(es) indicates the number of cars to be switched. Toss once for each industry chosen previously. 1= 1 car, 2= 2 cars, 3= 3 cars, 4= 1 car, 5= 2 cars, 6= 3 cars. The next toss(es) indicates which car types. I have six possible car choices for each industry written out on a simple matrix. Here’s where you need to really customize the game for your layout. I wouldn’t want to switch a propane tanker into the cattle pens for example, so my matrix has limited car choices for the cattle company. For example, for the industry known as Bonita River Distribution, a roll of a 1 calls for a 40’ ATSF boxcar. A 2 calls for a 50’ ATSF boxcar. A 3 calls for a reefer. A 4 calls for a 40’ non-ATSF (foreign road) boxcar, and so on. The last toss indicates how many laps to run both before and after you do the switching. 1= 2 laps, 2= 2 laps, 3= 3 laps, 4= 4 laps, 5= 5 laps, and 6= 6 laps. Whew! Still with me? You will come up with some additional rules and variables as you customize this for your layout. I’ll roll some dice here and show you an example of a “round” as I’ve come to call it. How many events (first toss). I roll a two, which means… Two switching events. Which Industries: I roll a 1, which means Bonita River Distribution, and also roll a 2, which means Sania Oil Company. This round is a Westbound run, by the way. I alternate directions every time. In or Out? I roll a 1 for Bonita River (In), and I then roll a 3 for Sandia Oil (also an In). How many cars? I roll a 1 for Bonita (one car) and I then roll a 5 for Sandia (two cars). What cars? I roll a 3 for Bonita (reefer) and I roll a 1 for Sandia (11,000 gallon tankers). How may laps? I roll a 6, meaning run 6 laps in and then 6 laps afterward. So after tossing a bunch of dice, for this round, my orders are to run 6 laps, then switch one reefer into Bonita River Distribution, and to switch two 11,000 gallon tankers into Sandia Oil. After switching is completed, I run another 6 laps to simulate mileage travelled. That will complete that round, and then I would start an Eastbound. If the reefer and two tank cars are not already in the train from a previous round, I fiddle them in. I never start with a train longer than 10 cars, and always have a caboose. I always add cars onto the eastern end and pull them off from the western end, so there is a continually changing set of cars. Not prototypical, but works for variety sake. If an industry calls for a car that is already on the siding or the interchange, I will switch that car before I call for a new car from the “yard”. You will come up with a whole list of similar rules and movements. My idea was to burn all the way through my entire roster, and it took several days and dozens of rounds to finish it off. There are a few problems. Occasionally, conflicting orders are generated. On those occasions, I just re-roll the dice! Also, you may get orders that don’t make sense, like pull two cars from a siding that aren’t there. As you play this game, you can tweak your charts until it all flows OK. You might want to add additional rolls, perhaps to change motive power, or for other random events such as a bad order car. As I said in the beginning, after I played a few of these games, I was much more focused on what cars my layout really needs. I found some scenery that needed work. I found many cars that needed work and weathering. It was very helpful to let these random events make problems crop up. I hope it all makes sense. If you read this far, thank you for staying awake in today’s class. I hope you found this helpful, and I’m glad to answer questions. Cheers!
Cool idea! I suppose everytime the die falls onto the floor or you roll snake eyes, you have to drink?
I've used dice to randomize how my trains are made up, and which locations are switched out when. It worked out pretty well to provide randomness to an otherwise limited operation cycle on my small layout. I've also used a method of dealing cards to get the same randomness. ---jps
Dice and cards? Gambling with your trains? If you roll craps, does that mean you have a bad derailment? Boxcab E50
While I appreciate that that was meant mainly as a joke, you can use dice in that manner. Whether you use dice, traditional car cards, or spreadsheet programs for car routing, you can roll a dice to cause a problem that operators have to deal with. First throw a single die, and fi you say, roll one through five, all is okay, but if you roll a six, there is a problem. Then do a second role to determine the problem, like #1 and #2 for a simple derailment, #3 for a broken coupler, #4 for a hotbox, #5 for a brakeline issue that decreases the operating speed limit of the train, #6 for a rockslide, etc. I remember reading somewhere where one fellow had a hotbox detector somewhere on his layout, and some random method that chose whether the unit detected a hotbox or not, and which car was found faulty. ---jps
There was an article in the Model Railroader a few months back on that. Looked quite a cool thing to do!
twisted trains makes a programable hot box/default detector that does some pretty slick stuff. you can check it out at www.twistedtrains.com
This is the sort of topic I'd see in the "how to" forum. It would need to be padded out a bit so everyone knew exactly what every part of the system did, but its certainly a great idea.....
After you have selected the number of cars, you can add one more variable: Loco assignments. The number of locos is based on the cars, but the order can be randomly picked. Which leads to another thought. I've been planning to make playing cards of each my locos to help document dcc cv settings. The card would have a photo, road number, and CV settings. I could then clip them to my fascia to remind me which loco was on each throttle. Seems like it would be easy to make cards of each of the switching settings. The back would have the category (i.e. events, industries, laps, etc.) and the front the number. After you have turned over all the cards, simply clip it to the wall or fasica and you have the event order. No writing required! Barry
Awesome idea Camp, I think many of us went through the Wargaming craze of the late seventies early eighties. I still have all my weird shaped dice and have considered doing the same thing. I think your idea is good but you could play on the statisitics a bit to determine actions. For instance, You could have a chart more like this: Switch list will contain the following: (roll two dice and sum them) 2- one setout, no pickups 3- two setouts, one pickup 4- 3 set outs, 2 pickups 5- 4 setouts, 3 pickups 6- 5 setouts, 4 pickups 7- 6 setouts, 6 pickups 8- 4 setouts, 5 pickups 9- 3 setouts, 4pickups 10- 2 setouts, 3 pickups 11- one setout , two pickups 12-no setouts, one pickup The same could be said for type of car recieved: Coal mine: (roll two dice and sum) 2- Box car with supplies for mining. 3 to 11- empty coal car for loading. 12- Tank car with fuel for mine equipment. You could do the same for the distribution of cars. Something like a coal mine or grain elevator at harvest time will be ordering more cars than a small freight house will. So maybe have it so that anytime you roll seven ( the highest probability) it means that the large industry, coal mine or other large factory gets cars. Sometimes your distribution may have too many cars going to one industry. You may have to switch half the cars then come back and swap the empty cars in so they can be loaded as well just on one trip. If you did this chart or something like it you would have a greater variety of car movements on a completely random spread. This ties in nicely with the idea of using written switch lists for operation. It might be fun to sit around and roll up switch lists with your crew while getting ready to run the layout. Sorry, I'm having to take statistics this quarter. We did the probabilty distribution for a pair of dice summed just a few weeks ago too. LOL i'm looking at the setouts pickups chart I just made. The way I have it set up you would most likely have a full six car train every time.
There was an article in the Model Railroader a few months back on that. Looked quite a cool thing to do! </font>[/QUOTE]What if everytime you approach a passing siding, you have to roll a die. If it comes up the right number you have to go in the hole and a doodle bug or passenger train gets to run laps on the main simulating traffic. another number and the passenger train runs only as far as the passing siding and it stays in the hole while you run by it. It could make for some fun operations, but i'm thinking perhaps a set schedule would be easier to run than this complete spur of the moment stuff.
Guys, if someone wants to gimme the specs for this, I can computerise it in a couple of hours..... Run the program and have your full list within 2 seconds, probably enough of a list to keep you busy for a couple of hours running. Obviously it will use 'canned' car names (Boxcar1 Boxcar2, Hopper1 Hopper2), but it'll be free
The problem with that is that there will be different specs for different layouts and operating schemes. ---jps
hmmm, I must be a true chronic trainboard addict. I keep checking back to my favorite discussions and no one has said muych more. lol I still think this is a neat idea that is worthy of more thought. SO when you said you could program it... was it going to be PC only? <------mac user on screamin machine with matrox graphics accelerator card.
The reason some will not like the "dice" idea (and I do) is that it doesn't mimic what happens on the real railroad. The number of cars you have should reflect the industries on your layout, plus interchange, through trains, excursion trains, etc. I have a friend and if I said to him, "Mike, lets run a train based on a dice throw," he would say to me - "Rick, why would I want to do that, the mill needs more wood so I'm sending out my logging cars to fill the order."
Geeky, I knew there was something swrong with you from the start..... The program would be in either Rexx or PHP...you can run either on the mac if you download the interpreters...they are universal languages, pretty much. Yes, everyones layout would be different, or you would hope so. That being said, there'd actually be TWO programs... you run one of them first to setup your layout..this could take a while... as you do this the program builds its own little database (small, but effective). You do that once..... From then on, you just run the other program which would give you your schedule in about 2 seconds...saves a lot of dice throwing and writing Heres what I'd need. Car types that can have multiple destinations (ie boxcars), car types that have ONE destination (ie, coal hoppers), industry types you'd like to service. At this stage, the initial program would: a) ask you to select a car type, then ask you how many of them you had (multiple choice) b) ask if there were more car types..if so, go back to a). c) ask what industry type you had (multiple choice) d) ask what cars serviced that industry (multiple choice) and how many of each MAXIMUM can go there in one train) e) ask if there are more car types for that industry...if so, back to d) f) ask if there were more industries. if so, back to c) g) ask for your loco type (free form text) h) ask how many you have i) ask for a reliability rating from 1-100 (1 means never breaks, 100 means never runs..lmao) j) ask if there are more loco types. if so, back to g) k) ask what the maximum train length is (number) l) ask what the minimum train length is
Wow, I had forgotten all about this thread, but I see it has been resurected! You guys have some good additional ideas, such as hotbox/random events, choosing power, etc. That's what is nice about this, you can totally customize it for your pike and style. When I build my new empire, it will eventually have a card system for ops, I guess, but in the meantime, I can run my little door layout while enjoying a steaming cup o' java early in the morning, tossing the dice and switching out a couple of industries before going to work.
