Layout Design Critique

Hey fellas, I have worked on this layout design for the last year or so and got it to where it suited me, but then I thought you could give me some comments on it- good, bad or indifferent. The following were my aims and goals.

The Quincy Terminal RR is a fictitious HO-scale railroad, which does the industrial switching and yard-to-yard transfers for its joint owners, CB&Q and ATSF. The period is the 1950s, it has no rolling stock of its own and the motive power is supplied by the owners (Alco S2, S4; EMD SW7; BLH S12 and GE 44-Ton). The railroad is situated in the Mississippi flood plain, which is very flat. The industries that I intend to use did exist at one time or other and were served by the railroad. It will be operated point-to point (yard to yard) with the lift-out bridge section removed. This lift-out section will only be used during demonstration of the layout.

Operation: 1 to 3 crews (operators) with one crew at each yard and a third to run transfers and switch the industries on table “B” and “D”. Car movements determined by a waybill/car card system. Outbound cars actually removed from layout and stored on shelves, elsewhere. The maximum length in rolling stock is 50ft. I have already tested my shortest piece of equipment, a GE 44-Ton engine, with the longest, several 50ft cars, through a #4 crossover and 2” track centers with coupler (frame mounted KD’s) travel to spare.

Control: DC block (as few as possible), 4 short panels on the 3-1/4” shelf, 3 plug-in, transistor throttles with adjustable momentum and top speed limitations.

Construction: Code 55 rail hand made/laid turnouts and tangents for all industrial spurs, Code 70 on main and sidings, possibly some Code 40 on less used spurs (I have worked with code 40 to 100 rail in the past), turnouts hand-actuated ground throws, minimum elevation changes, modular design with tables “A” and “B” (L-shape) or tables “C” thru “F” (J-shape) used at the local model railroad club’s open houses and bench height 36” from floor so kids and those confined to a wheel chair can view it easily. Around the outside of the layout will be a removable sky back drop which will interchange with a clear plexiglas shield to keep little fingers away from the structures, inverted L-girder framework, topped with 2ft x 4ft, ½” thick Armstrong ceiling tiles, these are not as dense as homasote, but hold spikes well.

Structures: Scratch built from articles in MR/RMC. The buildings to be removable; only the foundations are permanently fixed to the layout.



I thank you in advance for any suggestions you wish to make. Buzz

[ 17. March 2004, 02:02: Message edited by: Colonel ]

 

Paul
You refer to an image of the plan, but I don't see anything, I don't even see the dread red "X".

 

1) I use Personal Designer, rev6.7 which is a free internet download, but it is not supported anymore; it is not a Windows program and does not have a tutorial. I understand that it is similar to Auto-CAD (2D). I just got use to using it at my place of work before I retired.

2) Busy is what I prefer. This is pretty much the extent of my "trackage rights". There are no thru trains (none on the prototype), just local switching and yard transfers. The small yard has a capacity of (19) 40ft cars and the larger yard (26). Running trains around the loop would only be done during the club's open house. I wish I could extend the yards, but this will only be done on the larger one. I didn't include that table because I haven't completed it yet and that portion would not be taken to an open house. Thanks for your comments, Paul.

P.S. The drawing showed up better than I expected.

 

Wow! That is some plan... Will be great when it is finished. I would love to see some pic's as you work on it.

I have a couple of comments.

You may want to consider DCC for this. When you have multiple engines working closely together, it makes life much easier. The amount of money you spend on wiring and electrical switches for block control may very well pay for a DCC system like Digitrax Zephyr, or Super Empire Builder.

The end of the G that sticks into the "pit" might be too big. It has reduced your aisles to less than 3 feet, and if you are planning on three 2-man crews in there, it is going to get pretty cramped. I would suggest you either eliminate it, or make it narrower and shorter (maybe 18" wide by 3 feet long?).

I really like your plan to use the smaller rail. MicroEngineering makes excellent flex track and turnouts if you decide that handlaying is too much work. How much track do you have in there anyway?!?

You mention that you have tested your shortest engine. Have you tested the longest yet? That may be the limiting factor...

I am a big fan of the modular concept, and might suggest a 2" extruded foam subroadbed to keep the weight down, especially on those modules you intend to move to the club's open houses/displays. Do you have the ability to move table 'C'? It is about 10 feet long if I read the plan correctly. You might consider breaking it near the roadway into 4' and 6' modules.

When it is installed at home, I assume that you have room around the outside? If not, it may be difficult to get it into and out of the room.

Lastly, this type of layout seems like one that Art Curren would like. If you haven't yet, take a look for his articles in MR and books by Kalmbach. He has some great ideas that may work well for you.

Again - wow. I am looking forward to seeing this come together. Good luck. I hope my suggestions are useful.

Andrew

[ 17. March 2004, 14:29: Message edited by: MasonJar ]

 

Very nice. I have always had a soft spot for urban switching layouts. My layout is a coal hauler but when I got to building the scenery around my yard I made it a little more urban looking than I should have but I couldn't resist. Some day I could see myself building something like your layout.

 

Andrew, thanks for your comments.

1) DCC: I have thought about it many times and may end up using this type of control. At the moment, though, I'm in a "don't use what you can't fix yourself" mode. Are there any "breakdown" problems with this control?

2) 3-operators: I should explain that a little more. With 2-operators, the yard and industries on table "A & B" are worked by one and the other operator on table "C & D" yard and industries. With 3-operators, the third operator will, at times, work table "B" with trains from both yards and yard crews aligning the switches and block power from the yard to table "B". Also the third operator will spend time working table "E" which is an extension of the larger yard on the right side of the drawing. As I mentioned above to Paul, I didn't show this table because it is not complete and will not be taken to the club open house because it sticks out like a sore thumb and would be unprotected from little hands. I want to mention, again, that during operation at home, the lift-out bridge section will not be used (in the future, I thought this bridge could be replaced with an operating Bascule rolling lift bridge [which as it opens it rolls back and out of the way] and would remain in the open position during operation and opened and closed during open house shows). In the early design stages, I had to decide between running trains around a 2-lap design or switching industries....I'm a glutton for switching!!

3) MicroEngineering: Thanks for the tip. I've never figured the length of track. I'll probably build this layout one table at a time as far as trackwork is concern working from "A" to "D".

4) Longest engines: These are Alco S2 & S4, EMD SW7, BLH S12, all on Athearn "SW-1500" chassis. The length of these engines are almost equal to a 40ft boxcar. Any new purchases will not exceed this length.

5) Table length: Table "A & C" are 10ft tables which will fit neatly in my van extending between the two front seats. If I were to move the entire layout, everything will fit in the van with the center and rear seats removed. I transport 4ft X 8ft sheets easily with the rear lift-gate closed. The structures will be removable and place in boxes. About five years ago, I built table "B", but used Atlas Snap-Switches and flextrack, using the construction mentioned above. I was surprised how light in weight it was, but I will take a look at the extruded foam.

6) Home installation: It will be installed in my basement. I have tested a mock-up of the maximum size table and table "B", that I had previously built, and can get it in and out to the van (with the little woman's help) without clearance problems. Table "A & B" will be in the corner of the basement with viewing aisles along the outside of table "C & D".

7) Art Curren: I haven't subscribed to any model magazine since 1985, but I occasionally buy one at the magazines racks. If you are referring to articles and booklets on his great skill constructing plastic models, I have some of both that I will refer to.

So far the remarks that I have received have been a good double-check on the design.

Thanks, again for your comments, Andrew

 

Weird, I can't see it still.

 

Yes, it's there Rick. Did you try "refresh"? Sometimes I have to use that to get them to appear.
Bill

[ 17. March 2004, 23:34: Message edited by: Comet ]

 

Hi Buzz,

Again... wow. It looks like you have really been in the planning mode for some time now - and it has really paid off!

Just to respond to your "response"....

DCC - we use this at the local modular club, and I know and have operated with several guys who all run with Digitrax stuff. They have no complaints at all. The local modular club uses multiple power districts due to the number of locos that may be on the layout at any one time. Once you know what you are doing with it (not too steep a learning curve) and keep your track clean, you are good to go. As they say, it is much better to drive the loco than the track...

Operators - I just assumed that your "operators" were two man crews, as that is how we often do it. In your case, I think you are running one-man crews(?) which will of course leave much more room.

Microengineering track - My friend Mike Hamer (whose B&M was in Great Model Railroads 2004) used ME exclusively - Code 83 on the mains, and code 70 in the sidings, and it looks and runs great. He did take great pains to perfect the track before adding anything else to the layout, and it has paid off bigtime.

Engines - always good to check! (And stick to a standard... )

Table size/transport - You are lucky! I am restricted to 4 foot modules, as that is what will go in the back of my VW Golf. I can get four of them in there, but my only option to go longer is to put them on the roof!!

Home installation - Would you consider flipping or turning the plan somehow so that Tables A & B were visible from both sides (i.e. the operating pit, and the viewing aisle)? They are the two most interesting in my opinion... which brings me to Art Curren...

He has some great ideas concerning industrial buildings as scenery and view block (versus the old standby of a mountain range or double sided backdrop. He has an interesting article in Jan 99 Model Railroader about making a scenic divider from "double-sided" builings - that is, the front and back are actually from different kits. That way you double your industries in the same space.

Again, just my suggestions. Hope they are helpful. And if you don't mind, I might borrow your "Table B" plan for some ideas for a module I'd like to build.

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew,

DCC: The local club also uses this type of control, but I have never tried it. I still use the earlier radio control (I believe from the "guts" of radio controlled cars) when I operate. I never had to get into electronics because some members are electronic engineers and they use their magic on the layout.

Crews: Yea, I am use to one-man crews because that is what the club uses, except when training a "newbie".

I have always wanted to build/construct everytning I needed in model railroading to get the most out of this great pastime. If I fail at it, one can always buy it. So since I had had no problems in laying track in the past, I will try that first, then Microengineeing products, if it becomes a problem.

Transporting: I suggest keeping them short and inside the vehicle. Vibration from the wind generated by the vehicle's speed and/or road conditions won't due the modules any good.

Home installation: That is it for me and my limited space. At the lower end of table "A" is just enough clearance for door swing to a lavatory.

Art Curren: That is interesting! I'll see if any of the club members has this Jan '99 issue or buy a back-issue.

You are the third person that might use some or all table "B" for a layout. When I operated this module as shown the drill lead on the right would only hold a SW7 and a 50ft car. At the time I never had the run-a-round at the other end. It was restricted, but challenging. If you wish, I can send you a copy of table "B" only, a little larger in size, "flip' end-for-end if you wish. My problem is I'm not sure how to send it to you through this forum. As an e-mail I could do it by attachment.

Thanks, again, Andrew, for you helpful comments. Buzz

 

Hi again,

If the guy(s) form the local club are up for it, you could have them over to help with the DCC stuff. I definitely believe in borrowing expertise wherever possible!

Yes, I would like to see that plan! To get it too me, just click the "email" button at the top of my message. If you can't add an attachment, I'll just reply to your message so at least you will have the address. I fyou can, please send it as a jpg or some other "universal" format - I do not have a CAD program.

I really like that 'B' section since it has just the one main line running through. It would work really well as a "free-mo" module - their standard is one centred main line on a two foot wide table. With all those industries to switch, it could really "throw a wrench" in the operations at the club (in a good way )

Just in case you don't have enough info on them (unlikely, give all your planning... ), here is a link to some pictures of a rolling lift bridge I took near my home:

http://www.the-gauge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5736

Andrew

 

Well, I re-downloaded IE6 thinking I might have a corrupted Internet Explorer. I was having other problems yesterday and now I can see the drawing.

First, I like this plan - it reminds me of a John Armstrong design which is a nice compliment. You should note the only legitimate criticism against some of John A's plans were that they were too spaghetti like. If you get this layout up and don't like it visually, it will probably be because the layout is almost all track. I was looking at my track plan worried that it was too spaghetti like, but I have less track per space than you do.

I don't know how tall you are but if I were building this layout it would definitely be in the 50 to 54 inch range in height off of the floor.

 

buzz,

I like this plan very much. My only suggestion would be to consider eliminating a track or two here and there to give your scenes a little breathing room, and allow for more roads, trucks, industrial things like cranes (and junk), and workers.

My own experience is that I've sometimes overestimated the amount of switching tracks I really needed for some industries. I've also underestimated the length needed for leads.

In any case, this looks like a fun layout. It would sure have me scratching my head to make some switching moves.

Pete

 

Rick and Pete,

As I construct this layout I'll take track "clutter" into consideration. I find it easier to eliminate track than to try and insert it later. I guess it is somewhat "John Armstrong-ish", but I have a weakness for his track plans.

I operated a track plan of table "B" for a number of years with a track lead that would only hold an SW7 and a 50ft car. This should be easier to work.

The height of the layout will be 36" above the floor to make it possible for young kids and people in wheel-chairs to view it easily at the club open house shows. The above mentioned table "B" was built at this height. If I decide not to show it anymore, adding longer legs would be no problem.

Thanks for your comments. Buzz

 

Time to buy the wood for the benchwork.