Gary, Considering your desire for the P2a are you modeling the Cleveland area? The MEW model is a nice model but not as detailed as the Overland version of a few years ago. The MEW version is late 60's vintage with a repetitive gear drive and a bit noisy. RWL
RWL, No, I probably remember the correct designation incorrectly. Were the units P1 in Cleveland then P2 in NYC? I am modeling part of the electric division and part of the Hudson division. Perhaps P2b is what I want. I saw the Cleveland version at a train show, with the pantographs. If you are familiar with the operating charateristics of various models produced, I would appreciate any and all info you can share. My "Harmon" is actually hidden staging and requires an operator to sit within a one lap helix to swap motive power. When I don't have that operator, I just run right thru, it's only a model afterall. But I do want as good a runner as possible to handle my passenger trains down thru Spyten Dyvil. Thanks for any help you are able to give. Gary
Gary, I will be more than happy to give you information on the models, I hope you are not going to paint them blue? It will be later tonight, I have a few things to do before it gets dark. By the way, I posted earlier (weeks) to 462 what was available in brass and when they were imported. I'll post later. RWL
Gary, You are correct about the nomenclature of the P motors. The P1a was the CUT motor with pantographs and the P2a and P2b were the motors after being retrofitted from 3,000 DC to 600 DC for third rail operation on the Hudson and Harlem divisions. The MEW model was imported in the late 60’s as a P1a and a P2, pretty accurate for its time. Custom Brass, (NJI) came out with a P2 in the mid 70’s with a lot more detail and a somewhat better drive. They never bothered with the pans, probably could have sold maybe another 150 or so. Each set of wheels on the main truck is driven from its own motor. The frame of the truck is made up of one drive axle driven from the motor rotating two idler gears, which drive the two floating axles. All the gears are brass and make for a noisy but powerful combination. The motors are open frame and are mounted vertically with a lead weight mounted to the frame between them. The Overland versions are like the NJI versions except most of them came painted, the CUT motors in black and the P2’s in “Lightning Stripes”. Even though OMI opted to not detail the roof of these motors as well as they could have, they are better than what was offered previously. The drives for these are far superior to the earlier models utilizing OMI’s axle gearboxes. The operations of the three are rough to smooth, the MEW and NJI rough, too not as rough respectfully and the OMI’s run like silk. With some work on the gears both of these older models can be smoothed out and run quieter. Cleaning the edges of the tooth faces helps and making sure the gears mesh well reduces some of the friction and hence noise. Some models of these engines have been run to the point where the axles ridge and the gears are in closer contact then they should be. Replacing the motors with cans (Sagami 2028) also helps, you will need to increase the shaft diameter to satisfy the helical gear and find a new home for the weight. You could also contract NWSL to cut some idler gears in engineering plastic, which would be great help to reduce noise. Prices are always important and they range from $200.00 to $650.00 depending on where and when you run across one. They appear as 462 has found on Ebay and I have always run across one at the Timonium show. Although some dealers at Timonium believe they have a box cab of gold instead of brass, because they certainly are not plentiful. Before you think that quiet is better than power, the OMI’s cannot out pull an NJI without adding weight to the carbody. Well, I believe that should answer some of your questions? If you have more let me know. Good night
RWL, Thanks for all the detailed information! Rest assured I will not paint it blue when the day comes I get one. Either black or lightning stripes is fine with me. Thanks again, I really appreciate it. Gary
Well...........RWL provided so much info that I've read the post several times. Thanks RWL for all that info and if I paint them blue, it will be a navy blue........very dark. I'm modelling an "underground" (theoretically) terminal that deadends, so I need electric locos to bring trains in and out. The station platforms are 5 feet long plus another foot for uncoupling the loco. Leading into the station are 3 tunnels (there are 3 platforms, each with 2 tracks). As trains leave the tunnels they enter the yard, negotiate several switches and crossovers that take them to the mainline. But now I have to get them to ground level which will require that they reverse direction and head back on an incline since the train table is 14 + feet long. An incline of 1.5% should do it and that's where the P2's come in handy because they have 2 motors. We'll see how this all works out. I may have to eliminate the laundry room. Up until now Friend Wife has been supportive.......... RWL, I just purchased another electric locomotive which is black with NYC markings and I intend to leave it that way. Two tracks in the terminal will be dedicated to NYC trains. The P2 that I have was made by MEW and it came with decals for The Cleveland Terminal. I haven't yet received the second one but I imagine it will be the same. Maybe I'll paint it yellow and red like the UP........or purple. Gary, I'm very interested in the area you're modelling. It sounds like a nice project.
RWL.......Hi, I misunderstood your question of a few days ago. Although I plan to have some NYC trains on my layout, most equipment will be my own road. It's not my plan to freelance paint schemes on NYC models. NYC locomotives will be painted black or gray with lightening stripes. The only blue locos would be those on my own line.......and as a matter of fact I've reconsidered and I just might paint them black too. Yesterday I purchased that NYC R-2 about which I was lamenting when I started this column. It comes painted black with NYC markings as does a "South Shore Electric" that I also acquired.
462, when I worked for Lockheed, we painted our SR-71 aircraft "Midnight Blue" or some such "blue" name. It sure looked black to me, as did New York Central's diesels. Happy St. Patty's day. We need to find a photo of all those green NYC boxcars.
And a Happy St. Patrick's Day to you. I celebrated in good New York City style........... but I'm afraid that I'm at a loss when it comes to NYC freight. I know.......the NYC moved freight with the best of them......but I always think of the NYC in terms of luxury passenger traffic. Imagine yourself in the club car with a "something on the rocks", admiring a young lady with pretty legs, ....hearing .......but not feeling.....the wheels over the tracks......and she seems to be smiling at you.
From what I have seen most of the "road" electrics had the lighting stripes at some time in their lives.. All Passenger diesels were two tone grey except for the expermintal units until the sixties when they lost the stripes and were sold grey with the cigar band.. Freight units were black and grey with the stripes then in the 60's went to sold black with cigar band on F units and the white stripe on the frame of the gp units. Yes there were exceptions...and a book has been written about the NYC diesels.
I'm ressurecting this thread in hopes someone here can help me. I have just purchased a couple P2's and a T3. I want to paint them in lightning stripes. I haven't found decals for the stripes as applied to the electrics. Diesel stripes won't do it. The electrics had the stripes curve down at the ends. Can any one tell me of a source for these decals? Or of any available artwork to have them made? Perhaps someone who has done one of these had custom decals made I could buy? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Gary
