I studied HEP system and got these questions. </font> What gauge is HEP jumper?</font> How many amps you can push thru the trainline before something blows?</font> In comparison, SRT use axel driven generator to charge battery in car or onboard diesel alternator wich is primary drive for the car's air conditioner and car lighting. [ April 09, 2006, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: SRT-FAN ] Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Hey, I can't say what the gauge is. They're big & heavy cables. As far as the volts,ours are 480 volts. There are systems in place to prevent a surge to the cars & damage to the engines. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Come on Mike.....YOUR the passenger Engineer! If I was still working on the OC I could make a trip to the shop where we kept the FP9's and F40PH's and get you an answer, but here in Alabama, we're all freight. Come on passenger operators, here's a great chance to earn some extra credits.
Doubt if you could find many(if any at all) passenger engineers,myself included, on the Chicago Division(METRA)of BNSF who could tell you that. That was strictly electrician craft and if you started showing interest in that stuff you would draw a lot of attention from folks who would be more interested in why YOU would want to know than your interest in knowing! We weren't allowed to even touch those connections or cables. MU cables only when making or breaking a consist. Touch anything else electrical and you might get not only one helluva shock but a time slip and an @**-trimmin' from your boss! Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Hey, As a passsenger engineer , Gauge isn't important. Like Charlie said, that's the electrical dept job. But there are times when we have to go inbetween the equipment & short loop the cables to keep the HEP going. Now here its important to know volts & what to do so you don't get FRIED !!!! Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
I believe the rule-of-thumb is 500KW as the max required for HEP. Since HEP is supplied as 480 Volt, 3-Phase power, this would mean there is a max of 1,000 Amps available at the loco's connectors. So, you better "kill" the breakers on the loco's HEP panel BEFORE unplugging the HEP connectors!!!! I don't know what gauge the HEP cables are, but I think the conductors are about 3/4" in diameter. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
================================= That sounds about right, I know we messed up a connector but good, one night a few years back. It was on a weekend job, we shoved our train back to the Hill Yard at Aurora and made a joint on some standing cars on the track. When we stretched the train, the hogger didn't hear our "that'll do" right away so we gave a good tug on the "shore power" cable and messed up the pins! The electrician was OK about it, but we could have got in some deep doo-doo for that faux-pas if he wanted to push it! CT Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
that sounds about the same size as the jumpers we use between the loco and a slug.. with that, there are 7 connections i believe [1 standard 27pin trainline, one dedicated 27pin for ???, one ac cable connection for the tm blowers, and 4 high tension cables for the motor power] going by memory so it isn't too accurate but the high tension cables are about 3/4" around per conductor. a little lighter in gauge than a dc traction motor lead. but thicker than what you see on an ac traction motor lead Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
That sounds about right (its been a while since I checked the HEP meters). I'll have to measure a cable on Monday, if I can remember (or maybe just ask a car knocker). I personally don't know of any engineer on our railroad who has given cable size the slightest thought. There are actually three cables between the cars and the engine in push-pull service: The HEP cables (three conductor cable), one on each side, the Control Cable (27 pin jumper) which controls the engine (which runs down the train from the fireman's side of the engine) and related ancillary functions from the cab car, and the Door Control cable (another 27 pin jumper) which handles the functions that the train crew normally deals with (this cable runs down the train from the engineer's side of the locomotive). Secret Weapon went to Choo-Choo U and probably has the relative manuals around somewhere. The new multi-level cars have a startup load of 100 kw and we are planning to run them in eight and ten car sets powered by one ALP-46. While the full load doesn't kick in all at once that is still a pretty heavy draw on the cables. We run a couple of conventional trains with twelve cars with an ALP-46 for power. The HEP power cables are not the deciding factor on train length. It is the capacity of the HEP generator in the locomotive. I have seen Amtrak with 21 cars with two AEM-7s or one E-60 so the 480 volt cables are pretty tough. They run somewhere around $750 per cable. There is also a built in protection against shocking the bonehead who pulls the cable before the HEP is knocked down. If the jumper is pulled with the HEP still up the power pins lose contact before the ground pin. While there is a large flash there is little chance (theoretically) of the car knocker being electrocuted. Boy, that's more than I have thought about HEP in a lot of years. Steve Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Your Right Steve, If you would've asked for them the other day,I would've pointed you in the right direction . I can't reach or lift the box my books are in,yet. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
There are HEP sets providing much more than this. As well as the two examples below, Amtrak's ex-Army kitchen cars and ex-UP coaches converted to generator cars had a 750kW GM Detroit 16V-92. Amtrak followed the C&NW standard in HEP jumper cables and positions because of the ex-C&NW intercity bilevels they inherited. The end of each car is equipped with four hep connectors - two fixed jumpers with cables and two receptacles - which operate as parallel sets of cables. The train can be electrically isolated in portions and operated by two generators placed (theoretically) anywhere in the train. Each car has a HEP junction box where the 4 sets of wires join, in order to even out the electrical load between the cable sets. I posted this in the Passenger Services area and was directed here. Does anybody have or know where I can find details of the auxiliary engines/generators which are or were common in passenger/commuter service? The sites i've found so far sometimes mention the make or the output but not much more. CB&Q The type of Cummins diesel alternator sets in the Zephyrs. Most of the 1936 sets had three sets. The 1937 Denver Zephyrs had four. These provided 220V 60Hz 3 phase AC. C&NW The diesel alternator sets which replaced steam heating boilers in F7s and E8s in the 1950s for use with the bilevels. PRR The diesel alternator sets in the Tubular train baggage cars. NH Baldwin RP-210: All I can find is hey had a smaller 340kW Maybach MD series driving an alternator. Amtrak F40PH: Some had a 375hp Caterpillar 3406. Others are mentioned as having a Cummins set, but no mention of type or output. F59PH: 525kVA ??? F59PHI: 645kVA Caterpillar ??? MARC GP39H-2: ??? GP40WH-2: Cummins ??? Demotored F7A: ??? Demotored E9A: ??? NJT GP40FH-2: Caterpillar ??? SEPTA RL1350: Caterpillar ??? VRE RP39-2C: Cummins ??? Any other examples of demotored E and F units used as unpowered generator cars? Any info of pointers would be appreciated. Cheers David Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Apparently early F40PH's had no extra generator. HEP came from the prime mover.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH-2 Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Thats correct. FYI,the new PL42AC runs the same way.Just more computers onboard to screw things up.:angry: Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
See the last paragraph. "Later variations on the F40PH have added a second small diesel engine at the rear of the locomotive that exclusively drives the head end power generator." Cheers David Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
David, That is correct are correct. The F40PH-2 all have had CAT diesel generator sets installed to eliminate the necessity of running the prime mover at the eighth notch to supply the train with hotel power (a product of the HEP generator being driven off the prime mover much like the U34CH engine before them). I don't remember off hand what it is rated for but if Secret Weapon can get Scott to bring me his HEP books from Choo Choo U next time you get together I will fill in the blanks. The ALP-44 has an HEP converter which supplies the train with three-phase, 480 Volt, 60 Hz power for heating, A/C and other passenger conveniences and provides up to 500 KW of electrical power. The PL42AC has an 800KW load capacity and the Alternator is driven of the main engine. Steve Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
